Talk:List of Downton Abbey episodes

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Jessica Brown Findlay

Should there be no notes on the confusion over Jessica Brown Findlay's appearance in Series 3. She is confirmed to be in the third series, reprising her lead role, yet is not credited. This is made more disconcerting as people like Allen Leech and Amy Nuttall are credited (as well as the remainder of the original title cast). See Downton Abbey at the Internet Movie Database and/or the Downton Abbey talk page for this explained and in detail. --Tropzax (talk) 21:15, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again, what are you talking about? You have no idea who is credited for Season 3 as none of the episodes will be broadcast until September in the UK and January in the US. The IMDB is not a reliable source for casting, much less who's in the credits or credit order. It's a fan site with no fact checking and is loaded with errors. --Drmargi (talk) 21:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Questionable ratings figures?

The ratings figures for this show seem too high. For example, the article states that the Christmas Special attracted 12.11 million viewers. Now, there are only 26 million households in the UK, so this means that 46% of all households in the UK tuned in to that episode. Simply put, this is impossible. This needs to be looked into and corrected (for all episodes, not just the C.S.). MisterZed (talk) 18:39, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the United States ratings figures should be added. J4lambert (talk) 02:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Events out of sequence

I'm watching the episodes sequentially on Netflix and Hulu+ as I read the synopses in wikipedia. I'm surprised that some events are placed in the wrong sequence. It's starting to annoy me.-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.14.172 (talk • contribs)

And if they stay that way once you've found the error, whose fault is that? --Drmargi (talk) 23:35, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What does it matter? A storyline is often distributed in bits throughout an episode, but a synopsis gathers them all together to make a coherent whole, in as few words as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.149.48 (talk) 13:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"US" not "U.S" - see wiki Manual of Style.

See WP:MOS under "US and U.S.", for reasoning. Jimthing (talk) 01:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

What is the source for the dates given at the beginning of each synopsis? Are these actually official, or just educated guesses? Tad Lincoln (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They are shown at the beginning of the episodes. --EliOrni (talk) 13:59, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. That's not always the case in the U.S. broadcasts. In earlier episodes the date is sometimes shown, but not, for example, for episode 4 of season 3. I was coming here to ask the same question, because in episode 4, Lord Grantham mentions that Tennessee has just ratified the 19th amendment. (At least that's what I thought he said; perhaps he was referring to some earlier event in Tennessee pre-ratification.) Per Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Ratification_timeline, that occurred in August 1920, not June 1920, the month in which the episode evidently was meant to take place. I wonder if they removed the dates from episodes after the initial U.K. broadcast because of such discrepancies. I'm certainly not going to edit it out; I just wondered if anyone else was aware of this. Be lucky you don't have to endure the interminable fights over whether or not to include months and years of the events in Mad Men episodes, something that happens at that article's list of episodes every season. (MM never tells us with titles when an episode occurs.) Moncrief (talk) 20:18, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, the dates are NOT always shown at the beginning of episodes in the UK. Moncrief is correct about August 1920. The setting times for series 3 of Downton Abbey in wikipedia are incorrect. Netherfield (talk) 01:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone should remove or modify them then. (Not going to wade into that hornets' nest myself.) Moncrief (talk) 20:56, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I hear ya. I've noticed that the dates are wrong for series one, also. I don't know what source was used, but they resemble the dates posted on the blog "From the Pages of the Last Countess." The autrhor of that blog did not have a primary a source; the dates on the blog are GUESSES.) Episode three is definitely set in March 1913, per a member of the crew. I also think the date appeared on screen for the PBS telecast. Netherfield (talk) 21:15, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

UK vs. US/PBS versions

Please add information and sources explaining the differences between the original UK and the US/PBS versions of the broadcasts and DVDs. The last episode of Season 3 on PBS (Feb 2013) was about 95 minutes of content. How does this relate to the original UK broadcasts? How much of the total Season 3 content was cut in the US versions? How much was re-arranged?

Perusing the listings of DVDs for sale, it appears that all the DVDs, even in the US, are the original UK content. Is this true? -96.233.19.238 (talk) 15:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know it's true for iTunes. Original poster: that information is available online if you google for it. I suppose it could be added here as a footnote, but this is a list of the original broadcast episodes of the series in the UK. Downton Abbey is broadcast all over the world (rights sold to 100+ countries) in various configurations that suit local needs. As it was broadcast on commercial television in the UK with ad breaks, it's repackaged elsewhere such as in the U.S., where it's broadcast without ad breaks on PBS. I guess I'm saying that I'm not sure this article is the right place for all the information you want, except as a footnote, and that you can find that info if you search for it online. Three seconds of googling brought me to, e.g., http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1606375/faq#.2.1.1 (Quote there: "However, the season 1 DVDs sold by PBS and other U.S. outlets contained the unedited UK version of the show. Because of viewer criticism, subsequent seasons [after season 1] on PBS have aired intact, only being restructured into fewer episodes as mentioned previously. PBS has used timeslots ranging from 60-120 minutes to accommodate the series.") If information like that is added to the article though, then it opens a floodgate of having to put similar information into the article for other countries as well, which isn't really the purpose of this article. Moncrief (talk) 16:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"I agree that a list of differences between the ITV- and PBS-aired versions and the US v UK DVDs would be useful but I doubt that will happen on Wikipedia because neither the networks on both sides of the pond, nor Carnival -- the producers in the UK who do the editing for both -- have been forthcoming on this issue. The main sources for the differences are bloggers and customer reviewers who have seen both versions, and in some cases even transcribe word-for-word scenes which appeared in only one version, but some determined editors refuse to accept such sources as "reliable."

You may be surprised to learn that the Series 3 situation is the opposite of Series 1: PBS actually aired scenes in Series 3 that ITV left out, whereas the Series 1 that ITV aired included 20-25 minutes of scenes that were deleted for PBS. The most mentioned scene that doesn't appear in the UK version is the pre-wedding conversation between Lady Edith and Sir Anthony: After he indicates that he's having qualms about her having to put up with his age and disability, she counters, "Please understand, I don’t love you in spite of your need to be looked after, I love you because of it. I want you to be my life’s work." The reason that particular scene is getting so much irate attention is that many viewers think those last words of Edith's struck home with Sir Anthony and provide insight into why he bailed.

For Series 1, PBS wisely reproduced the UK version on DVD instead of the cut version that PBS had aired. But since the PBS-aired Series 3 version is the more complete one, it's unfortunate that PBS apparently reproduced the UK version on DVD this time, too; the PBS Series 3 DVD describes itself as "Original UK Version," and some bloggers and reviewers are indeed reporting that this is the case -- if so, this means that the more complete PBS-aired version of Series 3 is not available on DVD at all.

(I'm not aware of any substantial UK/US differences in Series 2, but I didn't search around the internet because I didn't think enough of Series 2 to bother.)Mirawithani (talk) 21:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)"[reply]

-96.233.19.238 (talk) 14:22, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would be interested in a summary of how this has been adapted in each country, globally.-96.233.19.238 (talk) 14:25, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What are you willing to do to find this information? Moncrief (talk) 04:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Determining "global" differences would be impossible even if there were wide interest, as there is with PBS v ITV versions. My purpose and -- judging from postings on the internet -- that of other fans, is solely to decide whether to keep home recordings from whichever country we're in. I'm in the U.S., so dumped my S1 home recordings in favor of the DVDs because PBS had broadcast cut versions but reproduced on DVD the original uncut ITV versions; I'll be hanging on to my PBS S3 home recordings because those airings may be the only whole ball of wax.

There's been a lot of false information floating around the internet about edited versions ever since S1 (the main Wikipedia entry cites a source which is patently false regarding the PBS-aired S1: "The only thing missing here are, in fact, the commercials themselves").

Although it's just a Tumblr poster (and I don't do Tumblr), this source for the S3 scenes in the PBS-aired version that are not in the ITV version is credible enough for me because she's so industrious and specific, and because I've seen mentions of some of those particular scenes mentioned elsewhere.

http://angel-princess-anna.tumblr.com/post/42264019948/additional-scenes-in-the-pbs-airings-of-downton-abbey

http://tocrackyournuts.tumblr.com/post/40558930297/angel-princess-anna-additional-scenes-in-the-pbs Mirawithani (talk) 17:33, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Season 5, episodes 1 and 2

A quick thankyou to this editor who although I think was a little incorrect, pointed out a lot of the logic- which I've expanded on. I was going to put this info as a hidden comment, but it became too long within the article, so i'm posting here.

Episode 1: ~~March 1924~~ April 1924 This episode takes place relatively soon after the Election of Ramsay MacDonald (first in office, 22nd January 1924). Robert and Cora's anniversary is on "The 16th"; so it cannot be in January. Mrs Hughes mentions to Mrs Patmore (about 3min into the episode) that the anniversary is on "Saturday week" so the episode starts at least a week before "The 16th". On the same day (~10min 45seconds), Jimmy receives a 2nd letter (in the "second post") and says that he sent Lady Anstruther a Valentines card that year, implying the episode is set after February 14th. Given that the day is after the 14th of February, but at least a week before "the 16th", The episode must start in March or April. The earliest possible (considering the proximity to the election, also the dates in the next episode) is early March, with the anniversary being March 16th and the fire the same night (or early morning after). (see Thedemonhog's comment below) Note: conflicting with this conclusion is the fact that in real world time, the only "Saturday the 16th"s in 1924 were in February or August. (See comments below)
Episode 2: ~~Late March - April 1924~~ April 1924 The fire took place on the night of (or early morning after) the anniversary, the 16th. at the end of episode 1, Mrs Hughes mentions to Lady Edith: "We'll see what can be saved tomorrow". Thus this episode starts on the day after the fire, the 17th. The British Empire Exhibition (When they hear the king speak) opened on the 23 April 1924.

—Msmarmalade (talk) 02:07, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see how episode 1 does not end on the night of April 16th. Most of episode 2 takes place the day immediately after episode 1, as we know from all of Baxter's interactions with Cora and Molesley. On the night of that day, Anna packs Mary's bags for her trip. I believe that the only time jump in the episode is to the day when they listen to the king, which is also the same day that Mary leaves. Seeing as it is far more likely that Anna would pack a few days before Mary's trip instead of over a month in advance, I am editing the article to say that both episodes take place in April. –thedemonhog talk • edits 22:33, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Thedemonhog: That's fair enough, as I mentioned above, it was mainly based on how at the start of the episode the conversation appears to be ~soon after~ the election. But your reasoning works better. Thanks for the input!—Msmarmalade (talk) 23:51, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited my first comment to reflect the new info—Msmarmalade (talk) 00:09, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This editor (while I think they got their days mixed up) has pointed out that the only "Saturday the 16th"s in 1924 were in February or August. However, considering that Mrs Hughes says the anniversary is on "Saturday week" i think the previous conclusion reached still holds. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've added a couple of times in the episode to the dotpoints above in case anyone wants to verify the quotes. I've also just put a table around the dotpoints above to make them easier to see —Msmarmalade (talk) 02:37, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Saturday, as has rightly been pointed out, only falls on the 16th on TWO dates in 1924 - as seen here! http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1924&country=9 - and they are February and August. Series 5 Episode 1 cannot be set in August as George V speaks at the British Empire exhibition (which happened on April 23rd!) in episode 2, meaning that episode 1 is stuck, completely and squarely, in February.

I shall be editing this now. Please, do NOT change it - wrongly - back since that is the only date it can be. 81.156.144.198 (talk) 12:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I didn't change it to February is because of the above reasoning (i.e. must be a week before the date, but after Valentines) Unless you can show that there was a time jump before Jimmy receives the "second post", or some other explanation, I believe the former still holds (Edit: to clarify, i'm saying that real world dates don't necessarily take precedence over the series' internal logic. While Downton Abbey does include real-world events, in the end it's a work of fiction, and it's also possible the producers just made a mistake). However, I'll leave the date as is, until someone else has some insight (I don't mean to start an edit war). But I'm reverting the hidden note, which along with being too long, I believe the wording is inappropriate for the main article. It is sufficient to direct to the talk page where such discussion as this can follow. —Msmarmalade (talk) 13:16, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've added an extra note in my above table —Msmarmalade (talk) 13:28, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have already explained why the episode takes place in April, but no matter what is decided, the first and second episodes take place on consecutive days and the article needs to reflect this. What is the dialogue about Saturday? –thedemonhog talk • edits 06:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The dialogue is "Their anniversary is on Saturday week." and, when someone wants to visit in 5x01, Cora states their anniversary is "the 16th". Using real life dates, we can determine that the only "Saturday 16ths" in 1924 were February and August. Now, the episode cannot - NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY - be set in August... for one tiny detail. George V speaks in 5x02. His speech is in April (April 23rd, 1924, to be precise!). Thus, this counts out - WITHOUT A SLIVER OF DOUBT - the August date. Thus, the only other "Saturday 16th" available is February... meaning that is their anniversary date: February 16th.

The only other way we can explain this away is that the bit with Jimmy saying goodbye and the cleaning of Edith's room takes place in February... then the episode skips (as we see Rose repeatedly nagging Robert throughout the episode and there is long enough for an announcement of George V speaking at the British Empire exhibition to be put in the paper and become public knowledge) to April, for the speech.

There is, no matter what ANYONE says, any other alternatives. Episode 1 is Feb. Episode 2 is April. 86.139.158.67 (talk) 22:54, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Series 5, Episode 5

This must take place later than September 1924. Among the guests at the Granthams' cocktail party Carson annou nces "Lord Howard of Glossop and Lady Beaumont". Lady Beaumont from 1896 to 1971 was Mona Fitzalan-Howard, 11th Baroness Beaumont (age thirty in 1924). Presumably the man accompanying her is supposed to be her husband Bernard Fitzalan-Howard, 3rd Baron Howard of Glossop (age 39 in 1924), rather than her father-in-law Francis Fitzalan-Howard, 2nd Baron Howard of Glossop who died aged 65 on on 22 September that year. Opera hat (talk) 00:08, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How do you retrieve the number of viewers from BARB?

Ok so now we've had 3 different values (11.2, 8.9, 10.71) for the number of viewers for season 5 episode 1. Could someone please teach me how to find the correct number so that in the future I can verify edits? For example there are several channels listed on the BARB site (e.g. ITV, ITVHD ITV+1) do you count these? Also repeats of the same episode? Or just the first? I don't even know if i'm looking at the right page. Thanks, —Msmarmalade (talk) 08:26, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Viewership - 28 Day Data

Isn't it rather biased to have 28 day data from BARB for the current series (series 6), but only 7 day data from the previous five series? Shouldn't the current series ratings figures stick to what it has been in the past? Just to show a better representation? 81.140.183.145 (talk) 22:30, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Plot summaries too long?

A note has appeared saying that the plot summaries may be too long or excessively detailed. From series three onwards I got in with initial synopses immediately after each episode was shown in the UK, and kept them as short and concise as I could; a lot happens in each episode, and needed to be included, but I believe my 1950s English Language training let me do a precis quite well. Unfortunately, in many cases others came along and added extra, unnecessary and irrelevant wording, embroidering the basic plotlines. I sometimes deleted dead-end sub-plots which made the synopsis too long, but some additions added things I missed, and were useful. Further pruning would remove basic plotlines, which I submit would not be helpful.62.31.149.48 (talk) 10:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

________________________________________________

I do not think the plot summaries are too long. In fact, I think most of them are too short. It may be useful to have two sections for each episode: a "highlights" section which would be very brief, and a "summaries" section that gives the reader all of the episode's plot lines.

I think this would be very useful. For example, I wondered which episode had Lady Mary putting her lucky charm on her dressing table to remind her that Matthew was on her side. I knew it was after Matthew's death, which meant it was probably in Season Four. I began watching Season Four again and found that it was in Episode Two. Lord Grantham gives Lady Mary "such a whacking at dinner". The plot line of Lord Grantham wanting to be in sole charge of the estate after Matthew's death and how Lady Mary comes to have a major role in the running of the estate is very important in understanding the rest of the series.

I think the general public would appreciate being able to find a plot line quickly and know which Season/Episode it was in.

Starsmark (talk) 22:19, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting take on the subject, but so much happens in each episode that covering each incident - especially trying to do them in order - would make the entries far too long. I think a general outline, giving only the main storylines, would satisfy most users. I came back after a decent interval to see what changes have been made, and am rather dismayed at some of the fiddling that's been done; in many cases, extra unnecessary details have been added, and I don't like the division into many short sentences, instead of using punctuation to make things flow more properly. I'm not going to change anything back, but I find some of the results annoying.62.31.149.48 (talk) 10:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Episode summaries are poorly written and contain numerous errors of fact.

I have all six seasons of Downton Abbey on DVD and have watched every episode over ten times. I copied the episodes section to a Word document for my personal use and my own editing and found that the summaries were so poorly written, contained so many errors of fact and omitted so many important plot lines that I had to rewrite practically the entire document.

I think the episode list summaries as they stand reflect poorly on Wikipedia's standards and do not serve the public well.

What's to be done?

Thank you.

Starsmark (talk) 22:08, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are entitled to your opinion, but as the initial writer of many summaries I take offence at your charge that they are poorly written; the English teacher at my Grammar School in the fifties would approve of my proper use of English and punctuation (subsequently badly amended, see above). I made notes as I viewed, and doubt there are errors of fact.62.31.149.48 (talk) 10:54, 5 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was not my intention to cause offense. My apologies. However, I did find many errors of fact back in my original posting on 19 February 2016. After a hiatus, I'm watching the series again and rereading the original episode summaries. In the original, part of the summary for Season 3, Episode 1 was written as follows:

"Tom takes Matthew to the pub to talk and tells Matthew that he will “never be happy with anyone else as long as Lady Mary walks the earth.” This prompts Matthew to go to Mary’s bedroom door and, after knocking, Anna opens the door, and Mary and Matthew talk through the door. He convinces her to go through with the wedding by telling her what Tom said."

Tom did not take Matthew to the pub to talk. They talked while having drinks inside Crawley House. This is evident not only from viewing the room they're in, but also from reading Downton Abbey: The Complete Scripts - Season 3, by Julian Fellowes, page 72.

I viewed the Wikipedia page again today, intending to correct it but someone has already rewritten the summary of Episode 1 and the error is no longer there.

I do want to say that I appreciated your inclusion of the quote that Matthew will “never be happy with anyone else as long as Lady Mary walks the earth,” (which has been removed) as this is one of my favorite quotes in the series. Cheers! Starsmark (talk) 00:27, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I must apologize again. I've just looked through the folders on my computer and I found your original summaries and I found another set of summaries that were posted on the IMDB. I confused the two. The summaries that had factual errors and were poorly written came from the IMDB, not from your summaries. Mea culpa! Starsmark (talk) 02:08, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Mr Carson's disease

Per Exec. Producer Gareth Naeme interview in the Wall Street Journal:

"It’s not Parkinson’s. I can see why you think it was, but it’s just an undiagnosed tremor...and it does affect quite a lot of people – it’s a sort of shaking tremor. Julian Fellowes suffers from this himself, he’s developed it over the last few years, so he was keen to write about it."

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/06/downton-abbey-executive-producer-gareth-neame-on-its-heartwarming-finale-2/

Mirawithani (talk) 23:54, 7 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Character Links

I would find it extremely helpful if links were given for the characters mentioned in the episodes. This was done in Wikipedia's list of episodes for The Sopranos and saved me much screen hopping back to the cast and characters.Abenr (talk) 18:49, 25 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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