Talk:List of Marilyns in England

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Need for clean up re Lists of Marilyns[edit]

I'm very confused about how Marilyns are being listed on here. The "Category:Marilyns of England" lists them alphabetically if the tag is added to the page, eg Dundry Down which I've done some bits as part of work on the Chew Valley, they appear in alphabetical order while it appears on List of Marilyns in England under South Central England with the parent as Beacon Batch (Somerset), when Black Down and Walbery Hill (Berkshire) both are listed in South East England with the same parent. I'm not sure of the definition of "parent" as Beacon Batch & Dundry Down are oposite sides of the Chew Valley & doesn't comply with the rules at Topographic prominence. If these are going to be listed by area perhaps a section for the South West is needed & locations & parents need checking. Rod 19:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To take your points in turn:
  • The fact that the regions used here (defined by a combination of geography and convenience) don't match the regions defined by topography (e.g. parents of peaks) should come as no surprise. It is easier to divide the peaks into England, Wales, Scotland, etc. (and regions therein) than to divide them into children (and descendants) of Scafell Pike, children of Beacon Batch, and so on.
  • The parent of Dundry Down is indeed Beacon Batch. They are connected by a col 63 m above sea level at ST541586, at the head of the Chew Valley (and the valley of the River Yeo), south-east of the wonderfully-named village of Nempnett Thrubwell. To get to any other higher ground, you would have to cross the River Avon, which would involve going lower than 63 m.
--Stemonitis 06:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]



There are >1500 marilyns in Great Britain. How were these selected for the list? RJFJR 13:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By loooking at a full set of OS maps, and determining how many hills had 150m or more of relative height. Grinner 09:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Relative height threshold[edit]

Why has a 1000 ft drop been chosen as the threshhold for marking entries in bold? As the definitions of Marilyns is metric (150m drop) and it is difficult to obtain height and/or prominence data accurate to the nearest foot, wouldn't it be better to adopt a metric threshhold of 300m? In practice this won't affect the England list — there are no hills with a drop of 300–304m (inclusive), but Pegwn Mawr (region 31B) on the Welsh list would be affected, as will 14 Scotish Marilyns if that list gets converted to the tabular format. ras52 12:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the boldface from those relative heights that had it, partly to make it more consistent with the Welsh equivalent, but mostly out of distaste for the arbitrary nature of the threshold. 300 m is as bad as 1000 ft, and neither is particularly informative. Peaks with relative heights above the threshold have greater relative heights than those below the threshold, but beyond that, it conveys no information. If there were a meaningful natural break in the relative heights, then a threshold might mean something, but there isn't, and it doesn't. --Stemonitis 14:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Revamp[edit]

Any problems with the extra subdivisions? They help locate the hills more accurately. --Mark J 20:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scarfell[edit]

Parent is listed as Snowdon. Surely that is wrong! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.145.55.186 (talk) 10:52, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Snowdon is the prominence parent of Scafell Pike. Viewfinder (talk) 09:00, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Propose to re-direct page[edit]

This is an old list of Marilyns on data which is out of date (some measurements have been updated, especially prominences), and whose sourcing is unclear (and thus, the data is not really useable). A new article, List of Marilyns in the British Isles, now includes all the English Marilyns (sortable vs. all the 2,011 British Isles and vs. just English), and the data is sourced from an October 2018 download of the Database of British and Irish Hills (the best database for mountains in the British Isles). The DoBIH tables also show the topo map, map section, grid ref and other classifications of each Marilyn. The table is also linked (each Marilyn linked to their own Wikipedia article where it exists). The new table is also in a format that it can be downloaded and updated again from the DoBIH in the future without much editing (and thus limits WP:OR issues, which are important when downloading from what is a Primary source), and thus by keeping all Marilyns in one Wikipedia article, we have a better chance of maintaining the integrity and accuracy of the Marilyn lists and data. Note, that some Marilyn articles have "parent" peak data (which seems also unsourced), however the DoBIH will not list parent peaks outside of defining parents of "tops" (as per the new Wikipedia articles on Munro Tops, Donald Tops etc.), or other low-prominence peaks (e.g. Nuttall), and in particular, the DoBIH will not list "parents of parents", and will not list parents of Marilyns. I think their approach is correct, as I think this issue can cause much confusion among non-technical readers.Britishfinance (talk) 13:37, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have ensured that every Marilyn listed here that is linked to an individual Marilyn article, is also linked in the new List of Marilyns in the British Isles article. Because the new article is downloaded automatically from the DoBIH, I have set up REDIRECT pages to the source individual article so that future DoBIH downloads will automatically link to the individual article. The new article does not have county data but does have Map and Topo Section (more useful to hill-walkers), and most importantly, all of its height and prom data is up to date. I am re-directing this article to the new article. Britishfinance (talk) 14:15, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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