This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occult, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the occult on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OccultWikipedia:WikiProject OccultTemplate:WikiProject OccultOccult articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spirituality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spirituality-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpiritualityWikipedia:WikiProject SpiritualityTemplate:WikiProject SpiritualitySpirituality articles
In the past, the Sigil of Baphomet was removed from this article because "Baphomet is not a demon" and because it is a modern invention. On the first point, while Baphomet was originally a fictional being, it has become a demon in the modern understanding and in modern religion. It is considered to be a demon by Satanists and other occultists, even if it is a semi-modern invention. On the second point, I don't see why its origins from a modern religion should exclude it from being part of a list containing sigils of demons, if it is in fact a sigil representing a theological demon. By definition it should be included in the article. I will add it back, and if anybody has any objections please reply to this discussion so that we may discuss it. Di (they-them) (talk) 22:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Di (they-them): I've seen Baphomet referred to as a deity, god, devil, Satan, and genie, but not a "demon". Can you can provide a source for Baphomet being referred to as a demon? Also I don't care if the origins are from a modern religion, but I don't really understand why The Church of Satan is calling it a sigil, nor do they explain this on their website. Sigils have a specific meaning and purpose in magic. The Church of Satan doesn't really believe in magic or demons, so their use of both the term "sigil" and the figure of Baphomet are basically just appropriations cobbled together to evoke a sinister facade. It's all a bit tongue-in-cheek with those Satanists. I'm reluctant to include something that is only called a sigil facetiously. Nosferattus (talk) 00:25, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Nosferattus: According to the Wikipedia article Baphomet, it is sometimes referred to as a deity or demon, which is cited from Pornographic Archaeology: Medicine, Medievalism, and the Invention of the French Nation by Zrinka Stahuljak. It's also commonly known as a demon in popular consciousness and popular culture. As an example of this, CNBC calls it "a demon god". As far as it being facetious, modern Satanists may not take it seriously, but the symbol originated with Stanislas de Guaita who did take magic seriously. Di (they-them) (talk) 02:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Di (they-them): I read the entire cited section of the book and couldn't find anything about Baphomet being a demon. And yes, I know the symbol originated with Stanislas de Guaita, but it's a pentacle, not a sigil. The only people who call it a sigil are the Church of Satan and that's because they don't really care. The only reason they adopted the symbol is because Anton LaVey saw it on the cover of a book about magic and thought it looked cool. We shouldn't consider the Church of Satan as a reliable source on demonology, which used to be a serious topic among theologians and occultists. I can understand your desire to include the symbol for the sake of thoroughness, but to me it degrades the legitimacy of the list since it isn't a sigil and Baphomet was never considered a demon (other than in popular culture). Nosferattus (talk) 04:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
.png){kind=small}
.svg)
