Talk:MP 18

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I added a list of citation references to a number of points made here regarding to the weapons production and issue to the battlefield. I marked these specific areas because it contradicts with many sources on the subject, or needs verification.

Many pages (including here on Wikipedia), as well as published books such as Ian Hogg's Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II and Chris Bishop's Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II state that the Beretta 1918 preceded the Bergmann MP-18 into service by a number of weeks or months.

Not only this, but according to such sources, as well as V.G Fedor's Evolution of Small Arms, the Beretta 1918-- as it appeared in the First World War, was not even technically a submachinegun. Whilst a number of prototypes fielded on an experimental basis were capable of select-fire, the adopted variant was only able to fire in semi-automatic, making the weapon simply a pistol-caliber carbine.

Also, according to one of the very links posted to as a source for the page contradicts the statement that full-scale production began in 1917 or 1918. It explicitly states that 50,000 pieces were ordered in 1918. Surely full-scale production did not enter before an order was ever even placed? -- 01:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Fingus

first paragraph[edit]

I removed a sentence which noted that this gun is "beautifully crafted" and is so rare that it sells for "20,000" or more at auction. This sentence was poorly worded and didn't cite it sources. In addition to this I don't see how someones opinion on the aesthetic qualities of this firearm or todays current sale price in USD are valuable or relevant pieces of information for an encyclopedia article

Vietminh 09:18, 23 March 2006

Edited: OOOPS! I just discovered I answered to an old message that was not sent to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quickload (talkcontribs) 22:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Quickload's answer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quickload (talkcontribs) 13:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

please follow the link I posted and read. I have had so far to examine 3 pieces of this rare MP 18. I have had exchanges with a few persons in charge of museums and armamement development including Birmingham Small Arms Pattern Room of Enfield now located in Manchester. The director told me they searched one of these for 80 years. I do shoot the one exhibited when some of the worlds specialists want to examine it. I have taken pictures of all specimen I could lay my hands on and examined those seized in combat in documented cases by french or americ n soldiers. I do not write by cutting and pasting formerly published articles full of inaccuracies. I did examine specimens from serial number 9XX to 33XXX.

I don't remenber having posted anything about its value .

Absolutely no military action report or no historical document or picture to state that the Beretta 1918 preceded the Bergmann MP-18 into service by a number of weeks or months unlike the documents I started to publish. 4 samples of seized MP 18 are shown in military academies rounds the round the and one is exhibited at the Army Technical School in Koblenz, Germany ( now moving to Berlin)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Quickload (talkcontribs) 09:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC) 

Edited to add, the WTS will finally stay in Koblenz

Edmond HUET (talk) 16:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Banned in the Treaty of Versailles[edit]

The first reference does not prove that this weapon was banned in the Treaty because it made such an impression, but merely that it was banned (and even that via a website and not by linking the Treaty text - which on second thought might be because there is nothing in the treaty to indicate the veracity of the statement). This should either be reworded or backed up by a source. Madcynic (talk) 09:54, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


Ireland is listed as one of the "users" of the MP18, but I have never encountered any documentation of its use in the period of the Irish War for Independence or the Civil War period. Is this intended to refer to a adoption by Free State forces? Its use appears in a movie, and is used in wargames about the Irish war for Independece, which might be the origins of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:07, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Primary weapon?[edit]

The lead tells us that the MP 18 "was introduced into service in 1918 by the German Army during World War I as the primary weapon of the Stosstruppen..." while the main body of the text informs us that roughly 5,000 may have seen actual service during the war. Obviously, given the scale of the conflict, 5,000 submachine guns was closer to spitting into the ocean that it was constituting the "primary weapon" of German Stormtroopers.-- (talk) 09:28, 24 December 2012 (UTC)