Talk:Maharishi School (US)

Old comments

I've been talking with the administrator who deleted this article last week and he felt it could be re-written to meet wikipedia standards. This is the beginning of that re-write and I would welcome feedback (before deletion this time, please).

Thanks Roseapple 00:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The School and Community

The opening sentence of this section may need to be removed as it seems WP:POV: "Parents strongly support the mission of the school, and the idea of consciousness-based education." Does the reference that follows the next sentence support this assertion? If not, can another source be found? --BwB (talk) 15:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Good catch. I felt the same way about that sentence and toned it down. I'm still not totally comfortable with it but would like to see the actual source it is cited to before changing further. I also changed the section title since it was mis-matched with the content. -- — Kbob • Talk • 22:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

External Links

Removed the link to the TM web site as there is a link to the Wiki page on TM already in the article. See WP:EL for policy. --BwB (talk) 15:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Placed this section below the Reference section. --BwB (talk) 01:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed link to school in UK - see WP:EL for policy. --BwB (talk) 16:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Clean Up and Expansion

I have today done some clean up and expansion of the article. I have removed some POV and non encyclopedic wording, rearranged some sections, added text and references to round out the article. Many of the refs are primary sources. In the coming days I will look for third party sources to support these. Any help other editors feel to give is always welcome! Cheers!-- — Kbob • Talk • 22:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Bullet Points

Any thoughts on the bullet points in the article? I'm not sure they are necessary. What do others think? Anything on this in WP:MOS ?? -- — Kbob • Talk • 22:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I removed the bullet points -- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:11, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Whow, it only took you a year to get round to it! Well done. --BwB (talk) 19:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Notable alumni

I'd had the thought about adding Steinberg, but then remembered being told in the past that we only add people who already have a Wikipedia article. So I was surprised to see Steinberg added. What's the standard for inclusion? Thanks. TimidGuy (talk) 11:14, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Steinberg appears to meet the standards of notability, having achieved a high position in a major competitive event. Alumni lists often include athletes who would qualify for an article, but don't have one yet. We can start an article on Steinberg and that will settle it.   Will Beback  talk  21:15, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

On further review, I see that he did not finish second in the so-called "Main Event". World Series of Poker#Main Event results. Almost all of the runners-up have bios. Rather, he participated in one of the 57 other events, 2010 World Series of Poker results#Event 8: $1,500 No Limit Hold'em. I'm not sure of the precise standards for notability of poker players - winning the main event isn't required, but probably at least winning one of the other events is necessary. Until that happens, or the person receives enough publicity to achieve general notability, it's premature to include him.   Will Beback  talk  00:19, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Seems like a good decision. TimidGuy (talk) 11:19, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

yes a good outcome. --BwB (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

If the Steinbergs continue competing and winning it's likely that one or both of them will eventually achieve notability, so this may be just a temporary fix.   Will Beback  talk  21:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, let's hope he wins BIG! --BwB (talk) 08:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

• Jennie Rothenberg-Gritz, editor

Is Jennie Rothenberg-Gritz notable?   Will Beback  talk  20:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

To be consistent, we should include Steinberg or exclude Rothenberg-Gritz. Since the editors here seem to prefer a keeping the list limited, I'll move the latter here. If we ever create an article on her the entry can be restored.   Will Beback  talk  00:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Is there a policy that says people are not notable unless they have a Wiki article? I have not seen it. If there is one then could someone please provide a link so I can increase my Wiki knowledge? Thanks so much.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:50, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

It's standard practice. See this edit, for example.[7] If Jennie Rothenberg-Gritz is restored, then Steinberg should be restored along with, I suppose, any other individual for whom we have a reliable source. Perhaps we can find a school yearbook and include the entire student body. Or, we can follow the every other school article and only include people who have Wikipedia articles.   Will Beback  talk  04:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

References

Links

There are some dead links, and links that no longer go to the listed page. Apparently, the school rearranged its website. The net effect is that some material is not longer properly cited. We need to figure out which new page, if any, contains the cited information, or find replacement sources.   Will Beback  talk  03:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Are you talking about EL's or citations?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Citations.   Will Beback  talk  20:05, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I've tried to fix a few of them.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Possible Source

Maharishi School of the Age of Enlightenment, who’s students win more top prizes in academics and sporting events than any other school of it’s size. [8]-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

What do we know about "Hollywood Today" as a source?   Will Beback  talk  20:04, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It appears that the writer of that piece is also the publisher and editor in chief of that website.[9] In other words, it's effectively self-published.   Will Beback  talk  20:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Boosterism

• A MSAE student was named as a semifinalist in the 2010 National Merit Scholarship Program. [10]

Is this really noteworthy? There are 8200 people who actually receive the scholarships, so presumably there are many more semifinalists. School articles always have a problem with boosterism. WP:BOOSTER This article is getting increasingly promotional in its tone and content.   Will Beback  talk  20:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

• • I was not aware of WP:BOOSTER but I just looked at it and noted that it is an essay which says in a nutshell: "Do not praise an academic institution; describe it using neutral language and verifiable facts." Do you feel the sentence in question is not verifiable or worded neutrally?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It also goes on to say:

• Notable distinctions and recognition have their place in the article, but they should not be the primary focus of the article. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia to summarize and contextualize information about these complex institutions, not an admissions brochure to convince readers of the quality of the school.

Let's keep that in mind.   Will Beback  talk  09:41, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

So then you agree that the sentence that you cited at the top of this page is both neutrally worded and verifiable. Is that correct?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 02:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

The issue isn't with that single sentence per se, but with the overall material. We could have 100 neutral, well-sourced sentences about various awards and championships won by students but the result would not necessarily be a neutral article. Let's try to keep this section from getting too long.   Will Beback  talk  02:57, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

OK so it sounds like your saying you no longer have a problem with that specific sentence.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think I said that. I asked, is this noteworthy? I haven't seen a response.   Will Beback  talk  04:04, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Enrollment

I can't find any official figure for the enrollment on the school's website. The article says the school's current enrollment is 242, and that was added in early 2007.[11] This source, which is undated but copyrighted 2010, says 220+.[12] There's a 2004 news article that says its enrollment was about 300. A 1996 news source says the enrollment was 600.   Will Beback  talk  04:39, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and change it to the 2010 figure, since that has a source.   Will Beback  talk  02:58, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems that the enrollment varies somewhat from year to year. If we have a source with the most recent number, that would seem appropriate.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

More boosterism

MSAE students have won a number of awards in state-wide, national and International competitions.

Is one of the sources this page? Three Win ‘Best of Category’ Awards at Intel Science Fair-II Combined with Part I of the same article, Three Win ‘Best of Category’ Awards at Intel Science Fair-I, there appear to be 400 winners. A fourth place win, shared with another student, in one of dozens of categories, really doesn't seem that special. While it's nice thing for the student, it doesn't apply so much to the school.   Will Beback  talk  04:11, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

• In 2011, MSAE students received a total of 40 of the 205 awards given at the Eastern Iowa Science and Engineering Fair, had eight finishes in the top three at the State Science and Technology Fair of Iowa, won a gold and bronze medal at the International SWEEEP Olympiad, fourth place at the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair and won the state championship at the U.S. Stockholm Junior Water Prize National Competition.

Two points: First, do other school articles include this kind of award? Second, it's the students who are being recognized, not the school. If a student were to be arrested, would we mention that? Where do we draw the line between student achievement and school achievement?   Will Beback  talk  22:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Third point: I don't see Maharishi School included in some of these sources. [13][14]   Will Beback  talk  22:40, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I think these awards already adequately covered by the previous sentence: "MSAE students have won a number of awards in state-wide, national and International competitions". Awards won by the school deserve more attention, but awards won by the students do not.   Will Beback  talk  22:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Agree that these awards already adequately covered by the previous sentence. --BweeB (talk) 08:41, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. The sentence you have cited "MSAE students have won a number of awards in state-wide, national and International competitions" is the opening, summary sentence for the entire section. It does not replace all the subsequent paragraphs that give specific details about the subtopic, just as the lead paragraph for the article does not replace the body of the article. Why don't we remove the sentences that reference 2009 and 2010 since they are no longer as relevant.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 02:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

But please keep it brief. --BweeB (talk) 09:47, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

To allay concerns expressed in this thread I have removed the two sentences on awards given in 2009 and 2010. I am posting them below. If anyone feels that the removed text is needed in the article, than please feel free to place them back in the article, as I have no objections to them being in or out of the article. Cheers!

• In 2009 and 2010 MSAE students won awards at the Eastern Iowa Science and Engineering Fair and participated in the INTEL International Competition.In 2010, the MSAE robotics team shared first prize in the First Tech Challenge (FTC)-Iowa, with a Collinsville, Illinois school while other students were awarded the "top prizes" at the Eastern Iowa State Science Fair and the State Science and Technology Fair.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Which of these awards was won by the school? How many other articles on schools in Iowa list these same awards?   Will Beback  talk  20:30, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Visitors

Yes, Oprah visited the MSAE in October. However, many other famous people have visited the school over the years. Do we want to start a list of these visitors and add them to the article? I don't think so. So perhaps we should remove the Oprah visit? --BwB (talk) 19:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

You are making a good point. But can you specify who these other famous visitors were and cite sources, so we can have this discussion in context? Thanks. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

It's my understanding that the purpose of the visit was to do filming for an upcoming TV episode. If so, the entry would soon be modified to include that information. But if editors want to remove it I won't complain. While famous visitors may not be unusual, I'm not aware of any others receiving international attention   Will Beback  talk  17:49, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

It's not often a small local school gets a visit from a high profile celebrity and it was reported by Associated Press so I think the current minor mention is appropriate. However, if there have been other high profile visits that are not mentioned than we can consider the Oprah text in that context. But given the info we have right now. I support the current text.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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