Talk:Max Freedom Long

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1. "The Hawaiian natives of that time, named Kahuna William, “Kahuna Ha`ole Nui” (Great White Priest)"

The folk etymology of the word haole coming from Ha`ole has been rejected here for some time. It contradicts the current article of haole on the Wikipedia. If you want to leave the comment that "the Hawaiian natives of the time, named Kahuna Wiliam, 'Kahuna Ha`ole Nui,'" you will have to (1) provide more sources that can back up your statement that they called him this, and you must (2) mention in your article that the etymology of haole coming from ha`ole has been refuted, while stating that according to Huna's teachings the word is ha`ole, and then you must immediately cite the exact sources of this information.

Aloha, Max Freedom Long repeatedly wrote that he was not a kahuna, and that Brigham was not a kahuna. As just one example, in The Secret Science at Work he wrote, "But what he [Brigham] was unable to discover was how the kahunas performed their miracles." (p. 6) "Many who had read my last book sought healing of the body by means of some kahuna, in spite of the fact that I had stated that there are no practicing kahuna now left in Hawaii, and that I myself am not a kahuna." (p. 12) He never said in any of his books that either of them were kahuna, nor did he make any such claims in the Bulletins. Long was wrong that there were no kahuna left in Hawaii, but he was certainly right that he and Brigham were not kahuna. Makana Chai 06:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

2. "Kahuna Nui Max's books on Huna brought many geniuses of the religious or supernatural to assist him in the development of the Huna theology"

The use of the word "genius" represents an opinion. You should refrase it to say that according to whomever, these people were geniuses. Then you should cite the reference to back up what you said right after the sentence.

3. "Polynesian tongues do not distinguish proper nouns as English does."

You must cite current linguistic resources to back this claim up. Like all claims made in articles in the Wikipedia, it can not stand uncited without being refuted.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Eclipticstranger (talk • contribs) 02:52, 20 August 2006

Needed Revisions

The following changes were made:

"Long was sent to Hawaii to teach Native Hawaiian children" - according to Secret Science Behind Miracles (SSBM) he applied for a job teaching elementary school in Hawaii. Then as now, Hawaii was multi-cultural and in the plantation area schools he taught children of Hawaiian, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese and Caucasian-American descent.

"He became a fire-walker and a miracle worker." Long never said in any of his books that he worked miracles, unless you count walking on fire a miracle, in which case the sentence is redundant.

"But they don't teach actual Huna, they teach their own teachings, which in the main, are benign." I don't know what benign means in this context, nor what "actual Huna" is, and have revised.

"In Hawaiian, Huna simply means "hidden". Polynesian tongues do not distinguish proper nouns as English does[citation needed]. The religious teachings of “Huna” is how they are named in English. In Polynesian, “huna” means dust or secret, whereas "`o huna" means the proper name of Max Freedom Longs theory and teachings. The Polynesian “huna” does not seem to have been used for a tradition of esoteric learning. In Pukui and Ebert's Hawaiian Dictionary, it is cited in compounds like lua huna, meaning "secret cave". It may have been chosen because it seems to be part of the word kahuna, which is widely used to mean "Hawaiian sorcerer". It is the teaching of the Huna religion that “kahuna” is a contraction of two other words or “Eyes of God”, “kahu” (keeper, servant) and “huna” (secret or dust). So while the word in the Polynesian languages means any priest, rabbi, imam, etc, the word has the eyes of god looking out of it, as all sacred languages do, to speak the word, “kahuna” is to speak “Priest or Minister, or Reverend, or Pastor, etc.”, but to have echo in the mind of the speaker and the listener, “a keeper of secrets”.

Huna's adherents encourage remembrance of these elders by all, and honoring of them for their contributions to Huna."

Much of the above is questionable or wrong and was changed.

The section on Huna beliefs should be expanded by someone who is a true believer. I only seek to make sure that where the Hawaiian language or culture are mentioned that they are accurately depicted. Makana Chai 03:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Brigham

The original article stated that Long learned from William Tufts Brigham, first Director of the Bishop Museum, that kahuna "magic" worked. Although Long repeatedly wrote that, there is compelling evidence that he never met Brigham, much less become his protege. See the book, Ho'opono by Pali Jae Lee, 1999 edition Appendix. It appears that Long used Brigham's name to give credence to his theories (Brigham was long dead when Long wrote his first book.)Makana Chai 21:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

More Revisions

The original article stated that Long spent the rest of his life "researching" the methods of the kahuna - I changed it to "theorized about" as he never claimed to have returned to Hawaii or to have interviewed anyone knowledgeable about kahuna or to have studied the books that came out in his later life written by Malo and Kamakau. Makana Chai 08:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions about new revisions

The article now says Max never fire-walked himself. Pali Jae Lee says he and Charles Kenn did travel around the South Pacific fire-walking, but I know of no published account. Do you have a cite for that statement?

Someone put in a list of "references" that were links to commercial sites. References are books. I'm not happy about the external links to "churches" because I think a lot of them are really commercial ventures, but don't have the time to investigate so have left them. I hope someone else will clean them up. Mahalo. Makana Chai 22:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

About the word "Huna", etc.

From the viewpoint of the "lay" reader - and I would assume most of the readers that come to Wikipedia in search of information would be "lay" readers in that specific field of knowledge - the statement about the word "Huna" being unknown in Hawaiian "tradition" sounds like he made it up or his information was otherwise unreliable.

That is correct.

Now, that may be so - and if so, it definitely should be stated so - but I have browsed through various serious works (by different authors) about "Huna" and related Hawaiian shamanic practices, specifically looking for rebuttals of M.F.L.'s work. And yet, while there are some mild criticisms to be found, the works I have seen seem to basically corroborate the "teachings" he describes.

That's because they're all based on his teachings.

I think the distinction should be made between the use of the word "Huna", which may have been contentious, and the actual contents of the practices or traditions he purportedly describes. If these are accurately described, and the only contention is the use of the word "Huna", then that should be clearly stated so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.142.216.212 (talk) 18:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Both are contentious.Makana Chai (talk) 03:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia contradictions

The frist sentence in this article doesn't make sense since it contraticts readily available other information:

The sentence reads: "Max Freedom Long (October 26, 1890 – September 23, 1971) was an American novelist and New Age author."

If you look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age it clearly says "New Age is a range of spiritual or religious practices and beliefs which rapidly grew in Western society during the early 1970s."

Long's writings are from the first half of the 20th century, not the second. Thus he can't be a "New Age author". 2A02:908:2810:8780:B8D6:8FA3:57C2:B499 (talk) 19:13, 18 June 2023 (UTC)