Talk:Merheleva Ridge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Archaeology (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Ukraine (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 

Slope of the "pyramid"[edit]

If the structure has a base area of three-quarters of a square mile and a height of 60 meters, then it would have a slope of less than 1 degree:

1 statute mile = 1609.344m
1609.344m x .75 = 1207.008m
1207.008m / 2 = 603.504m
60m / 603.504m = 0.0994193

Did I do the math wrong or is this "pyramid" not much of a pyramid? --Jugbo 06:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn’t the last step be: to get the angle in degrees? --Van helsing 11:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Probably. Math has never been my forte. --Jugbo 03:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

No pyramid yet[edit]

There's been a great deal of speculation that this is another Bosnian "pyramid" hoax - an attempt to bring tourist revenue into the area at the expense of the destruction of important archeological sites. I think the Bosnian pyramids article and its talk page can give some good guidance into handling this current event. The first report I can find is in PRAVDA [[1]]. This shouldn't be confused with the extremely similar claims of underground "pyramids" near Sevastopol [[2]]. Hopefully, more information will be made available shortly. --Ronz 15:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

There doesn't appear to be any new reports issued as of today. However, this site supposedly has obtained an image of the excavation from this site. Either someone fluent in Russian should investigate, or everyone can just wait for an update in English. Russian sources obviously are able to obtain information before most others, hence the sometime-tabloid Pravda was probably the first to report on it. --Jugbo 16:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Correcting source material[edit]

I've noticed a great deal of correcting the claims made in the source material. To me, this comes across as bias and original research. The news articles to date are poorly researched and written - editing out their flaws in logic and fact-checking makes the "pyramid" claim appear more valid than it is. I suggest removing all corrections that change the meaning of the source material. --Ronz 14:46, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe the original author of the article was attempting to avoid plagiarism. --Jugbo 16:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, and that's fine. I'm more concerened with letting readers see how shoddy the reporters have been, such as writing "South America" as the location of Mayans and Aztecs. Correcting it to Meso-America hides this sloppy journalism and creates a sense that the sources we have so far are better than they actually are. --Ronz 19:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Let the readers see the "sloppiness" in the actual reports. The point is that the structure in Ukraine is said to resemble the structures of the Aztecs and Mayans of Mesoamerica, not that the Aztecs and Mayans or their structures are supposedly in South America. --Jugbo 20:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Let's just keep track of how poor the sources are so far, and update information as better sources are made available. From what I can make out, the "pyramid" is just a very large archeological site that reminds me of a very large tell. --Ronz 21:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Fine. Regarding my last post in the section above, I've found at least one Russian article on the subject (check this page for pronunciation: "UKRAINA - RODINA PIRAMID" - it's pretty obvious), as well as the article from which the image in the report on the Mosnews website was taken, although I have no idea what it says. --Jugbo 00:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
it seems to make fun of Ukrainian nationalists and their "national pyramid". dab () 10:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Russian report[edit]

It may very well be sarcasm. Apparently only this report is about the alleged pyramids. Using Rustran, it's translation goes thus:

"УКРАИНА (UKRAINA) - THE NATIVE LAND OF PYRAMIDS"
Great pyramids. A phototape the Ukrainian patriots had a new occasion for pride. As it is found out, their country - the native land not only bacon and горилки (gorilki), but also pyramids. Here them have constructed earlier, than in Egypt. Ukraine утыкана островерхими (utykana ostroverkhimi) constructions, as its national flower of sunflower - sunflower seeds. Pyramids find from the Russian border up to the most Black Sea surburbs. This time pyramids are found out near Lugansk as it is necessary - casually, schoolboys, in a kitchen garden.
First seven pyramids have found in Crimea, near Sevastopol, two years ago. The feat of the pathfinder was made by local pensioner Igor Goh. It was supposed, that in pyramids ancient ornaments were kept. On excavation experts - local geologists were. Tops of ancient constructions have appeared simply greater stones, but gold really was - two grams lost туристкой (turistkoj) rings.
Now Lugansk archeologists speak: they have dug out two pyramids and a sanctuary of the pagan god of the Sun. It has no anything the general with Egyptian Ра (Ra). At украинцев (ukraintsev) as they approve, there is a ancient belief - РУНВира (runvira), and pyramids - temples of its adherents.
Inhabitants of Lugansk approve, that to their pyramids - five thousand years. They are more senior Egyptian, but never were tombs. The economic Ukrainian soul cannot transfer unprofitable use of greater angular houses. In them as the doctor of historical sciences Victor Klochko approves, prayed and treated. "It testifies to an advanced and ancient Ukrainian civilization ".
Lugansk authorities speak Russian also the Ukrainian nationalism do not suffer. But they have counted up financial benefit which is promised with pyramids. The chapter of a department of tourism and protection of a cultural heritage of Lugansk regional administration Vladimir Vybornyj has declared, that pyramids will be "музифицированы" (muzifitsirovany). Tourists can not only to look at them, but also to listen to their songs. It, in opinion of the regional chief, will involve in the region removed from tourist routes and nice only steppes and waste heaps, foreigners with
Now the prehistoric find looks so: two huge stones, around of them - канава (kanava). Local authorities hope, that if канаву (kanavu) to make more deeply and to dig some decades, it is possible дорыться (dorytsya) up to the basis of pyramids. With excavation in Lugansk do not hasten - remember the Sevastopol experience.
After detection near Lugansk of pyramids in Ukraine there were new subspecies of scientists - пирамидологи (piramidologi). They were united around of the International academy of safe development of mankind. Its representative Berdyshev approves: in total in Ukraine 200 pyramids, soon will find out them near Dnepropetrovsk and Chernovtsy, it of 12-15 thousand years.
Besides in the Ukrainian villages have started to build new pyramids - for fashionable treatment. The scheme of improvement in them such: if drunk комбайнера (kombajnera) for 10 minutes to place in a pyramid, it not only will sober up, but also will think again, becomes the high-grade Ukrainian citizen. Speak, this method was used still by the Zaporozhye cossacks. Бердышев (berdyshev) it formulates scientific words: " It is possible to approve, that energy of a pyramid harmonizes surrounding space and tone is энергомодулятором (energomodulyatorom), restoring balance
At the same time the Kiev deputies approve: knowingly pyramids have dug out on border with Russia and at the Black Sea coast. They, obviously, were the first газо (gazo)- and oil storages. And members of parliament recommend to include the new paragraph in the Ukrainian textbooks of history - how the first pyramids built украинцы (ukraintsy), and Moldavians were engaged in painting and decorating.
--Jugbo 17:31, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Just read the russian article, and it is very much a sarcastic and biased opinion. The primary aim was not to report the news, but to make fun of Ukrainians who, according to the author, again made things up. Pyramids in Ukraine does sound out of place, however. Our best bet is to await the verdict of third-party experts as to the validity of the archeological find and make appropriate changes in the article at that time.--Riurik (discuss) 22:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"pyramid"[edit]

can we reference at least one actual archaeological publication? this is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. Also, which is it now, an actual pyramid (entirely man-made structure)? height? inclination? Or just a hill with steps carved into it? (which would be remarkable enough in its own right, but let's get rid of the 'pyramid' cruft in that case). dab () 10:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

According to this, archaeologists are unearthing the top parts of the estimated two pyramids. Experts in the field were dispatched to the site in order to validate or discredit the find. Thus it is too early to have a source from an archaeological publication, but perhaps in a couple of months.--Riurik (discuss) 22:39, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Pravda.ru reference[edit]

The Pravda reference is notable for at least two reasons: It came out almost a month before the more credible reports and Pravda is not generally a reliable source. For these reasons it should be kept in, since the "pyramid" seems to be a hoax similar to the "bosnian pyramids". These types of hoaxes are perpetuated by journalists too lazy to check, much less question and correct, sources and claims. As I pointed out above, our editing or removing such source material is a type of bias that makes these hoaxes seem real. To date we have no credible sources, let alone the type of secondary sources that good wiki articles are based upon. --Ronz 16:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It's official - there is no pyramid[edit]

I found and included the online ref to Klochko's statement. Now what? Is this article even notable anymore? Should it be rewritten from the perspective that the early reports were wrong? I tried a few quick searches to see what's available about the site and came up with nothing. --Ronz 01:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I edited it to make sense in light of Klochko's statement, though more could be done. --Ronz 02:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

location?[edit]

any idea where the site is? "Luhansk area" isn't very precise. dab (𒁳) 15:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

We've only the one reliable source, which only says, "located in the Lugansk region of western Ukraine". --Ronz 16:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
which would mean the oblast, not even necessarily close to the city. dab (𒁳) 16:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

this one looks rather reliable: [3] "Lugansk region, near Pereval�sk, 4 km to the south from Stepanivka village". --dab (𒁳) 16:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I've been searching for other sources. Most are in Russian. That's the only one I've found so far that looks useful. The different spellings of the location names (translations vs transliterations) confused me for a bit. --Ronz 16:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

yes, you have to google for the cyrillic, Перевальськ, Степанівка. --dab (𒁳) 16:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

ok, I cannot find Stepanivka on a map, but I find it is situated at the Lozova river which passes Perevalsk/Alchevsk to the north-west. I conclude the site must be near 48°35′N 38°50′E / 48.583°N 38.833°E / 48.583; 38.833, but this isn't exact. dab (𒁳) 18:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

got it, it's at 48°25′N 38°57′E / 48.417°N 38.950°E / 48.417; 38.950 [4] --dab (𒁳) 16:03, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Merheleva Ridge[edit]

According to traditional in Wikipedia transliteration from Ukrainian it should be Merheleva Ridge --Riwnodennyk 15:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

DISPUTED - Human Sacrifice[edit]

I have put a disputed tag at the top of this article on account of its almost total reliance on media reports, and in particular on the Guardian newspaper, as citations for the statements regarding human sacrifice. In my opinion journalistic reporting is not an adequate reference for an encyclopaedic entry. Could someone please provide proper primary sources, if possible with dissenting commentary where available, for the claims made in the article (and now through referencing this article echoed elsewhere on Wiki, again therefore with no provenance while carrying the weight of Wiki) If no proper source material can be found then the unsubstantiated sections should be deleted. LookingGlass (talk) 10:37, 15 November 2011 (UTC)