Talk:Minneapolis

Suggestions for revisions on demographics or government

Good morning @susanlesch, I have some bandwidth this next month and am wondering if you have anything you want added or improved to the demographics or government sections of the article. Much thanks. Svenskbygderna (talk) 14:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Svenskbygderna. Nice to hear from you, and lucky us to have some of your time.

• First in Climate, we need sources for Minneapolis has cold, snowy winters and hot, humid summers, as is typical in a continental climate. The difference between average temperatures in the coldest winter month and the warmest summer month is 58.1 °F (32.3 °C). I asked the weather WikiProject but didn't hear back.

I commented this out until there are sources. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

• Second, we have a FAR review underway by Z1720. She appears to want to give this article a clearcut. You and I have gone back and forth before about what is essential in Demographics, so I am certain you can help. If you're feeling brave, please make any cuts you wish. (I can't promise not to revert, especially if it looks like we lost information that explains a people's situation.) Same for Government. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

• I encourage some to WP:BEBOLD in cutting information, but also to revert if there is something you think should be in the article, as long as a discussion about the revert is posted below. Z1720 (talk) 21:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Susan (by the way, I recently changed my username from Svenskygderna -> Petermgrund to reflect my actual identity, so do not be alarmed). I will perhaps made a sandbox page with some suggested cuts to the demographics and government sections. I will look for some sources re: climate and let you know. Petermgrund (talk) 17:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Peter, thanks, it's always alarming to see a real user name on Wikipedia (only kidding). The entire Structural racism section will move from History to Demographics. Waiting briefly for Z1720's OK, but we can proceed boldly. -SusanLesch (talk) 12:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Peter, we're ready. Z1720 likes the plan. Cutting words (moving to other sections or other articles) is our goal. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Petermgrund? -SusanLesch (talk) 13:36, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Petermgrund have we lost you? -SusanLesch (talk) 14:56, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Susan,

Again, apologies. I seem to have turned off notifications for talk pages. I am going to finish work on the ethnic and racial demographics table and then begin making some cuts and adjustments to the demographics and government sections. Petermgrund (talk) 14:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the updated table. I moved Native down one position. My questions.

• Regarding your edit summary ("poorly sourced older statistics with more recent, better sourced values"), why would US Census figures ever be poorly sourced? Why would they ever change?
• Why do some values differ from Minneapolis to Demographics of Minneapolis?

-SusanLesch (talk) 13:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Petermgrund? -SusanLesch (talk) 15:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Based on your past performance, I am moving on alone. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I am quite alarmed. Remember the first time you edited our population table you did it in an hour and made several mistakes. Today I looked at our race and ethnic table and a whole census for 1990 was wrong. Why? I could easily have made errors. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. I made the necessary corrections, aligned the text in cells, and reduced the decimals to one place. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:41, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Deletions have been restored

Magnolia677, I restored the trip agents on the light rail (they aren't on a bus). I guess you're from out of town. Metro Transit was down more than 100 police officers two years ago. The presence of trip agents is a reassuring sign to those of us who depend on public transit. They are no more decorative than the men loading flour, teacher and his class, or the DID ambassador. Second, I restored the city's official name per the articles for Boston and Cleveland. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: It's wonderful you befriended some transit employees and took their photo, but this is not a personal photo gallery, and your photo is out-of-scope. The article mentions nothing about "trip agents", and there is already a photo of a Metro Blue Line train. Metro (Minnesota) would be a more encyclopedic place to add your photo. Please seek a consensus for your addition. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Magnolia677, you missed the point. MOS:IMAGES says "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context". The article says, directly to the left of this image:

Hundreds of homeless people nightly sought shelter on Green Line trains until overnight service was cut back in 2019. Short more than a hundred police officers, in 2022, the Metro Council hired community groups to help police light rail stations; these non-profits can guide passengers to mental health services and shelters.

MOS:IMAGES also tells us to improve existing photos with better captions. I'll take your suggestion to show the Green Line. Thank you for your interest. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: The article says "Metro Council hired community groups to help police light rail stations", however, your photo is of paid transit employees. Your photo does not support the text, and is decorative. Please respect WP:BRD and seek a consensus rather than edit war to add your personal pics. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:09, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

• Magnolia677, for the third time I repeat, Metro Transit was missing more than 100 police officers. My interest is for the safety of light rail passengers. Crime on LRTs increased 25% from 2022 to 2023, and these trip agents are a sign that something good is afoot. Wow what a change. Anecdotally, my friend was robbed on a train a couple years ago, but yesterday I passed a station where four agents were on the platform. Metro Transit took action and it shows. I don't care who takes their picture and I'm not attached to my own photo which is what seems to disturb you. Forget it.
• More research tells me these agents are new as of February 2024 (Star Tribune). They are not community service officers who started earlier, in December 2023. Nor are they Metro Transit employees. They work for Allied Universal security (CBS News). I'll do my best to update the article. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: Are you prepared to respect WP:BRD and remove your out-of-scope photo until a consensus is reached? Magnolia677 (talk) 18:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I see no issue with this image. It directly relates to the section it's place in, and there are not too many pictures present at the moment. Seems to fit the reasoning of MOS:IMAGES. Susan, I agree that you should add another line about the paid employees to that section as well, with sourcing as you find it. glman (talk) 19:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, glman. I learned a lot here. Done. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

City of Minneapolis

@Sbmeirow: Why are you selectively reverting this article? I appreciate that you've worked hard on WP:USCITIES and may have some strong feelings reflected in your edit to remove the official name of this city. Your edit summary says removed, because Wikipedia is not a LEGAL document. Nobody is making such a claim.

This is a featured article, and we only have three models of US cities with standalone names to follow: the featured articles Boston, Washington, D.C. and Cleveland. I am restoring the name of the city. A simple fact shouldn't be controversial. Please make your case that using the city's proper name is somehow a legal maneuver. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Every reference in this article that is a citation to the city has "City of Minneapolis" as the publisher. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a legal document or contract, thus is why we don't use "City of NAME" or "Town of NAME". We are suppose to use the common NAME of a community, it's just that dang simple. In general, this has already been an established way to do it across a vast majority of tens of thousands of community articles. Pointing at the exceptions doesn't validate your argument. There are some exceptions, such as NAME is a generic word that could have multiple meanings, or silly community naming messes in older states (such as smaller Town of NAME is actually located inside of a larger City of SAME NAME crazyness). In general, it is fairly obvious that an article named "NAME" or "NAME, STATE" should infer that any use of NAME alone inside the article refers to the community without having to constantly repeat "City of" or "Town of". • Sbmeirow • Talk • 22:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

May I suggest you find consensus for your position at WikiProject Cities? This article is in FAR and I cannot do that for you today. I am not attached to the official construct but it is useful and I disagree that it is solely a legal name. Wikipedia has only a few featured US cities and when this one is done I imagine it will be a template for many more. If you can gather your troops at Boston and Cleveland and come up with something, I'll happily follow. Until consensus is reached, I am a stickler for rules. From the top of Featured articles: "Featured articles are considered to be some of the best articles Wikipedia has to offer, as determined by Wikipedia's editors. They are used by editors as examples for writing other articles." I'm not pointing to "exceptions", I am pointing to the most exceptional of articles. Also when/if you come back here to remove the official name, please do it carefully and globally and don't leave maintenance of thirty other occurrences for somebody else. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Concur that this should be discussed at WikiProject Cities for consensus. glman (talk) 13:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Since there are tens of thousands of community articles that does it differently, it seems that you should be the one to argue at Wikipedia:USCITY to do it different than the majority. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 07:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sbmeirow: I can't due to FAR in progress. Maybe you can get some help from Magnolia677. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I have deleted "city of" from hundreds of US city articles, as this is not the common name. I believe a consensus needs to be found to make an exception to the rule, not the other way around. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

FAR is not an excuse to avoid the issue. If you don't/can't find the time now, then disputed content should be removed until you have free time. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 20:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Gentlemen, there are good reasons for keeping it, and I outlined them above. I doubt you have approached the editors of the FAs Boston, Washington, D.C., and Cleveland, so I have to question your wisdom in singling out this article. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:29, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: "Gentlemen"? Magnolia677 (talk) 15:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The first sentence is precious as an introduction to the article. Except for Washington D.C., the reader gets no new information about the city except how to specify it in a citation or in a contract (city, town). Even good articles can be improved as they are examples and not every aspect is a perfect model. Use the first few sentences to introduce what makes that community unique and not an unnecessary, technical detail. Cheers, 〜 Adflatuss • talk 23:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Good point, Adflatuss. May I request again that this discussion be moved to the proper venue?

Sbmeirow, did you miss the part where I asked you to first discuss this at the WikiProject and then make your revert globally? -SusanLesch (talk) 00:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Please continue discussion of this topic at the WikiProject. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

IABot errors

IABot has been fixed. For the record, a backlog caused a number of my edits to disappear. I guess we're OK now. -SusanLesch (talk) 12:49, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I believe IABot disappeared my edits again. Reported again. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:23, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Links in #Demographics

Magnolia677, you recently reverted my addition of a link to Indian people, citing MOS:OL. I'm okay with leaving the link out as long as that section is consistent. Can you please review it and remove any other links to articles about people that you think are unhelpful to the reader? For example, Germans and Irish and Jews are linked. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 11:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

SusanLesch, sorry to bring the FAR here, but there are quite a few inconsistencies in linking in this section. Some peoples are never linked, and some are linked twice. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 11:45, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

This wasn't an overlink. Indians are the only unlinked people remaining in the first four paragraphs. I don't expect that Magnolia will ever clean up this can of worms.

I removed two links that seemed tangential to this section (manifest destiny and migrant workers). -SusanLesch (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Edit request

Please add a hatnote to handle the incoming redirects mpls. and mlps.

Please add:

"Mpls." and "Mlps." redirect here. For other topics, see MLPS and mpls (disambiguation).

{{redirect-multi|2|Mpls.|Mlps.|other topics|MLPS|and|mpls (disambiguation)}}

-- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 22:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi. For the most part, this is done. I omitted the misspelling of an archaic abbreviation. And I corrected the disambiguation page that appeared over-eager to introduce it. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:23, 15 October 2024 (UTC)