|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mixed-sex education article.|
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- 1 Informal use of Coed
- 2 Criteria for inclusion
- 3 Florida State information conflicts across the Wiki
- 4 JHU co-ed
- 5 To hyphenate or not to hyphenate
- 6 Coeducational Universities in Europe?
- 7 Name change
- 8 The earliest . . . ?
- 9 USA lists
- 10 Change of name
- 11 Advantages and disadvantages of coeducation
- 12 Sex education?
- 13 What about its use on Wikipedia?
- 14 China
Informal use of Coed
The "informal" use of the term "coed" is actually pejorative. By implicating that only a woman is a coed, it reflects an era where women were not permitted access to higher education and thus an attempt to emphasize this fact.
I do not advocate for the removal of the term in this sense, I just think that the sexist nature should be pointed out. Coed in description of a coeducational residence/program/institution is good. Coed to describe a woman is bad. --Waterspyder 02:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
I'd just as soon have the sentence about "coed" striken entirely from this article entirely and just leave it to a seperate article. In the US for those born after the massive wave of integration of universities all "coed" means is a female college student of traditional college age. Jon 15:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- But that doesn't answer the question of why the term is used for females only. Why couldn't a male student at a coeducational school be considered just as much of a "co-ed" as a female student? JackofOz 05:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
- Male students just aren't considered co-ed in current US speech even if they are attending a formerly all-female school. It's not the wikipedia's job to make value judgements anyway. Jon 17:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
- That still doesn't answer the question at all. Moreover, does anybody have any idea among whom the use of the term originally developed?
- Boys at formerly male-only institutions?
- Girls beginning to attend formerly male-only institutions?
- Female-only institutions, or people thereat, losing students to these co-educational institutions?
- Some other group entirely?
- Moreover, how much use does the term get nowadays? -- Smjg (talk) 11:33, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- That still doesn't answer the question at all. Moreover, does anybody have any idea among whom the use of the term originally developed?
Criteria for inclusion
How do we decide what schools should and should not be listed on this page? It seems to me that a comprehensive list would span many, many pages, and there are currently no criteria for what schools appear. I'm seeing schools on there that I have never personally heard of, while other schools that I think should be mentioned are missing. I am tempted to add the dates I can source-cite, but not delist any colleges until a consensus is met. In particular, why is Rose-Hulman listed while Caltech and MIT are not? I feel all three of these should be included. I'm currently writing a paper on the gender disparity in scientific and engineering fields, and I'm finding this list useful in background on the lack of access for women to the basic knowledge needed to conduct scientific research up until the 1960's, and even beyond. Also, if we define "coeducational from start" and "became coeducational", then the entire list of all higher education universities must be contained in the union of those two sets. Perhaps, instead, "coeducational from start, prior to 1970", and "became coeducational" would be better categorization, since it appears to be a "default" that the majority of colleges founded since 1970 have been coeducational, and thus their creation is no longer worthy of mention in an article about coeducation. --ElizabethFong 19:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Florida State information conflicts across the Wiki
On this page, Florida State is listed as beiing coed since 1882, but on [] it's listed as only being coed since 1947.
- The Florida State University article gives a nice background on its coeducational history, but in particular it says: "On May 15, 1947, the Governor of Florida signed an act of the Legislature returning Florida State College for Women to coeducational status and naming it The Florida State University." Based on the information at that article, it was originally a men's college, became coeducational, changed to a women's college when the University of Florida became a men's college, and then reverted back to coeducational. Based on that, I would say that FSU has been continuously coeducational only since 1947, and this article (Coeducation) should be updated accordingly. Beginning 00:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
JHU Med School did not go co-ed in 1893, but the first woman did become a Doctor that year from the grad school, by earning a PhD in Geology. For the reason that it was not co-ed from the begining, I am shifting JHU into the 'year went co-ed' category, and changing the listing to Grad School. source Desertsky85451 00:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
To hyphenate or not to hyphenate
Maybe this is kind of nitpicky (or is it nit-picky?), but I was wondering why "coeducational" or "coed" is written half the time in this article, and "co-educational" or "co-ed" is written the other half. Is there any sort of consensus, or is this just a reflection of the different preferences by different contributors? Merriam-Webster seems to prefer not hyphenating, but I don't know whether it's that big of a deal to try to go in and enforce one spelling or the other. It just looks weird to see things like "Coeducation in China" followed on the next line by "Co-education in Hong Kong", as if the political distinction also created a hyphenational distinction. (unknown anous)
- Could be another one of those American English vs British English things. Jon 18:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Coeducational Universities in Europe?
I don't feel qualified to add this material myself, because I know very little about it, but I know that women's education was undergoing many changes in Europe in the 19th century as well, one example being Jagiellonian University, in Krakow, Poland, which was awarding degrees to women as early as 1824, and gradually opening its colleges and faculties to women through the turn of the century. It was easier for an Austrian woman in the early 20th Century to get a university education in Krakow than in Vienna. Is there anyone, perhaps among our European contributors, who can add to this article?
Perhaps the same could also be done for other regions of the world, by those better informed than myself.
Coeducation does not specify in its name that it refers to the mixing of genders within teaching. "Mixed-sex education", it is much more suitable term, since not only is the name also used more commonly, but it is more accurate in its meaning, and also also fits in with the format laid out by the name of the article Single-sex education. Please discuss. An alternative would be "Multi-sex education". Hamletpride (talk) 17:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- I think this is Canadian/British vs. U.S. issue. I have never seen "mixed-sex education" used in the U.S. (it sounds a bit racy to my American ears), whereas "coeducational" is very commonly used in the U.S. In fact, when my search came up with an entry entitled "Mixed-sex education), I did a double-take, before figuring out what this was. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
The earliest . . . ?
I removed "The oldest originally mixed-sex school still in existence is Tenison's School in Croydon, South London, which was established to provide education for "ten poor boys and ten poor girls" in 1714." Friends School, Saffron Waldon was founded in 1702, although it was in several places during its history: 1702-1786, Friends School & Workhouse, Clerkenwell; 1786-1825 at Islington Road, Islington; 1825-1879 at Croydon; from 1879 at Saffron Walden. Vernon White . . . Talk 20:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Why do we need the full lists entitled "USA mixed-sex higher education institutes", "Dates USA educational institutions became mixed-sex", and "Canada"? They seem to be unnecessary and too long for an encyclopaedic article. No-one is really going to read through all them, and it makes the article seem very bloated and irrelevant to non-USA readers. Alternatively we could go for a split. -- CowplopmorrisTalkContribs 02:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Change of name
I am not sure why this was renamed from coeducation. Coeducation is the more commonly used term on both sides of the pond. Take these searches for example. 'Mixed-sex education' produces 3,510 Ghits here. Compare this with a combination of 'Coeducation' with 151,000 here and 'Co-education' 170,000 here. The difference is stark. TerriersFan (talk) 20:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Advantages and disadvantages of coeducation
Putting in a group of boys and girls at the age of puberty leads to transfer their attention from learning about the competition aspects of the opposite sex, and the immaturity and the significant psychological differences lead to conflict (silly jokes, provocative behavior, competition for a boyfriend or girlfriend ). The pace of maturation for both sexes, and other treats only at the age of maturity. Seven-years-old girls ahead of boys in terms of physical, but are lagging behind in terms of capacity of concentration, coordination and ability to write. The harmonization of the methodology of teaching for both sexes in the mixed classroom enforces the need to impose a pattern of behavior across gender group ignoring phisical and psychological differences between boys and girls, even in such aspects as temperature in the classroom . It is easier to motivate boys to learn through competition, and the girls by the contact and interaction. Critics also suggest a better outcome of single-sex schools compared with coeducational schools .
Coeducation supporters respond that most research indicates that although there are minor differences in individual brain structure of male and female, the resulting differences in the perception and processing of information by the boys and girls are much smaller than the individual differences between children of the same sex. As for adults, differences in intellectual performance between the sexes cease to have any meaning.
Conducted in the United Kingdom, where the two concepts together education, research has not shown that boys and girls choose different subjects or have a better performance in science, depending on whether they learn at mixed schools whether to pursue the concept of diversified education. The conclusions of these studies are such that there is a very good school based on both of these concepts, but not because they are for boys only, girls only, or for both sexes. The main factors are the ability of students, the environment, which is derived from and qualified teachers. Authors of this study examined in detail the arguments of supporters of a diversified education and found that the arguments are usually inadequate or selectively presented.
This is the example of research conducted since the early 90. to prove that children from different schools on the grounds of sex are achieving better results than children from mixed schools. On the argument that co-education is the wrong solution, because boys and girls learn in different ways, advocates suggest that many studies have shown that small differences in the perception and processing of information that may be held at the girls' and boys do not affect the way you see the effectiveness science.
In contrast, the argument that, in classes of older disabled disconcentration is associated with the element of dealing with sex, coeducation supporters respond that the intercourse with their own gender, it may lead to tension, which greatly hinder the process of further education. Violence and homosexual behavior appear more frequently in the schools for boys than in mixed schools.
What about its use on Wikipedia?
I second what 184.108.40.206 said. I had to learn what coed meant, and then I discovered this article lists its use as informal, does that mean that its use should be avoided in Wikipedia? (except of course when it is the topic of discussion or some quotation). I got here because I encountered it being used on the Sara Bareilles article: "...she was a member of the co-ed a cappella group Awaken a Cappella...", and now I don't know if she was a member of an all-girls group or a mixed-sex group. :-S --Dave.haku (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- It's true that it is listed in dictionaries as informal (my says "informal" - not "slang"), but it is -- or was -- very common in the U.S., and has no commonly used alternative. To get a rough idea of the frequency of its use, look at https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=coeds%2Cco-eds%2Cmixed-sex&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=17&smoothing=0&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccoeds%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cco%20-%20eds%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cmixed%20-%20sex%3B%2Cc0 .220.127.116.11 (talk) 05:10, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
"The first mixed-sex institution of higher learning in China was the Nanjing Higher Normal School, which was renamed National Central University and Nanjing University. For millennia in China, public schools, especially public higher learning schools, were for men. Generally only schools established by zongzu (宗族, gens) were for both male and female students. Some schools such as Li Zhi's school in Ming Dynasty and Yuan Mei's school in Qing Dynasty enrolled both male and female students." This unclear and even confusing. In any case, how about some dates? Did the NHNS take women hundreds of years ago or starting around 1910? Somebody who knows the facts should set us straight.18.104.22.168 (talk) 05:15, 19 October 2013 (UTC)