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Talk:Mohamed Bazoum

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Antony Blinken

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Why adding the picture with Antony Blinken? his presence on the page of Mohamed Bazoum is irrelevant otherwise his relation with Mohamed Bazoum or its importance on this page should be clearly stated. Looks more like the US department of external policy trying to exist on all wikipedia pages. 2800:150:152:D71:454F:165B:1D9:BB5C (talk) 21:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

De jure presidency

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Bazoum still de jure holds office, right? This should be reflected in both the infobox and the article. Loytra (talk) 22:54, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, I'm changing this. At least two sources point to this being the case: Bazoum tweeted that he is not stepping down, and still stating he is the President of Niger. Another source comes from an August 1, 2023 call in which the State Department of the United States that still calls him President. Holidayruin (talk) 04:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bazoum himself and the U.S. state department are not objective sources of information on this. We go through this process every time there's a coup. We don't consider "de jure" officeholders if they no longer hold any real power. Aung San Suu Kyi still claims to be, and is still recognized by the UN as the leader of Myanmar more than two years after that coup. But she is under arrest, just like Bazoum is. Of course if he is restored to power we will change it, but Wikipedia does not seek to right great wrongs by advocating for the rightful leader. 25stargeneral (talk) 12:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Right now, Niger's crisis is more complicated. Bazoum is refusing to step down officially. Look at Nicolás Maduro for an example of a disputed presidency. This one is too. Here is an objective source that says that the presidency is disputed ("Not another coup as usual"). Holidayruin (talk) 15:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is just tedious. You cannot cite the man himself when writing his biographical article. The source you gave me calls him "the deposed president". You claim it says it is "disputed". However that word does not appear in the article. Every time a coup happens anywhere editors come out of the woodwork to say "well de jure it was illegal". Yeah, that's pretty much what makes it a coup. The world does not work that way. Africa has a long history of these events, and especially the Sahel as of recent years due to the instability related to jihadist insurgency. I can't remember the last time one was actually ever reversed. Again, I would point you to Myanmar, where these same arguments were made ad nauseum. If someone is under arrest they cannot reasonably be said to still hold their position. Guaido was not under arrest during that dispute BTW. But I think it would be much more illuminating for you to consider the way these things play out in the Sahel, not Venezuela. 25stargeneral (talk) 15:41, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Talking about the fact that he still calls himself president is crucial to mention. This is the definition of a disputed presidency. There is an active diplomatic battle underway that is trying to get his presidency fully restored, which makes the disputed nature even more so. And if Myanmar can be an appropriate example that can be pointed to for this, so can Venezuela. Holidayruin (talk) 12:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's what RS call him that matters, what he calls himself is immaterial to Wikipedia. I mean we can put it in the body, but it doesn't make him the "incumbent" as you claim. I used Myanmar as an example because they had a military coup, their leaders still claim office and are still internationally recognized, and are under arrest. Venezuela was not a coup and doesn't really bear any similarities, and had RS reporting on Guaido as being interim president. Please look at the actual conditions at play and how RS describe it. This happens all the time in the Sahel. It shouldn't be much of a mystery to anyone who edits in this topic what's happening and how it will end. "Active diplomatic battles" have a success rate of close to zero so there's no point in us writing the article based on the unlikely hope it will work out for him. Best to stick only to what has already happened. 25stargeneral (talk) 16:49, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry but if himself and several major countries call him the incumbent president, I don't know any other definitions that could possibly fit a "disputed presidency". What little else would be a disputed presidency other than a situation just like this? Holidayruin (talk) 21:03, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We would need reliable sources that describe a dispute over who currently holds political power in Niger. Wikipedia is a tertiary source. We don't look at the facts ourselves and draw conclusions, we rely on others for all analysis. 25stargeneral (talk) 04:24, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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