Talk:Montmorillonite

Images

Please can someone give an idea of size, such as a scale bar. This is very basic stuff. Not including these is bad practice and makes the images of very little value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.64.39 (talk • contribs)

I have answered here. Best regards Rhanyeia 12:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

There is error in the scale of the "Structure of montmorillonite" drawing. The spacing between the layers is measured in nanometers, not millimeters.--83.24.66.86 (talk) 06:43, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree and have posted a note on the talk page of the user who uploaded the image. Vsmith (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

You are right, I can't believe I didn't notice! I was probably not paying enough attention to the accuracy of the figure, since I was focusing on translating the German version of the figure (I didn't create the original). I'll fix it tomorrow, if no one else beats me to it. --Itub (talk) 19:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Itub (talk) 13:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

please give me aidia of suppliers of montmorillonite ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharadgabani (talk • contribs) 12:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Try googling 'montmorillonite france' - you should come up with a European supplier who may be able to redirect you wherever you are on the globe, or supply you direct. Antoniolus —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:08, 7 November 2008 (UTC).

what is different between montmorillonite and bentonite and montmorillonite K-10? Iam used montmorillonite K-10 (lewis acid )as catalyst buying from sigma aldrich who is other supplier?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharadgabani (talk • contribs) 12:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Chinese medicinal usage

Hello,

I just wanted to add that while on business in Shanghai I became ill with diarrhoea. I went to the Hilton hotel doctor and they gave me montmorillonite powder to mix with 50ml of warm water (3 packets daily), along with salts to drink and levofloxacin antibacterial. I did as instructed and the diarrhoea was cured almost instantly (less than one hour). The montmorillonite powder was branded as "smecta" and manufactured in China by Beaufour Ipsen Pharmaceutical Co., LTD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.248.137 (talk) 14:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• This may because clay can adsorb virus and bacteria, you can check "THE ADSORPTION OF YEAST RNA BY ALLOPHANE, Clays and Clay Minerals, Vol. 27, No. 4, pp. 261-268, 1979." and cited publications for more information if you like. The paper is available online for free public access from the publisher. --Cyferz 16:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

French montmorillonite clay is used extensively in Europe, and much in France both internally and externally. Montmorillonite has both adsorbtion and absorbtion properties if I remember correctly and is used 'medicinally' to allegedly hasten the removal of toxins from the body. Internal use of various other clays are well documented especially bentonite for this purpose. Properties are similar to activated charcoal in that respect. Most animals in the wild routinely consume clays, usually in suspension in drinking water where they have intestinal detoxifying abilities it is believed. They may also provide some mineral matter to the animal who consumes them, though whether these are in a form which can be used by the body of the animal in question I don't know. A researched section on both internal and external medicinal uses would be a valuable addition to the article I believe. Antoniolus —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC).

You may want to consider a new section as you are responding to comments over a year old. Pubmed may have suitable sources (and diberri's template generator can help with citations) but any claims for health benefits have to come from reliable sources. WLU (t) (c) ^{(rules - simple rules)} 14:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Well hello WLU - we meet again! I agree with you - I wasn't suggesting article changes, but was responding to the discussion post above. I do appreciate that anecdotal use does not qualify for article changes, and wasn't suggesting that. Out of interest Fuller's Earth (another form of clay) is still recommended for chelation of paraquat, and for some heavy metals and appears relatively widely in medical text books. Activated charcoal is still used widely in modern medicine contemporarily as a broad anti-toxin for internal use against ingested poisons (often alongside stomach pumping if appropriate), and is well documented in medical texts. Whether either of these appear in PubMed I cannot say. I also cannot say whether French montmorillonite is used for such purposes in orthodox medicine, but maybe the French may have something to add there with regards to medicinal use on their home turf. I did come across this ref on the bentonite page on WP that would seem appropriate to add here regarding use, presumably in France:

Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L (2005). "Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial". Aliment. Pharmacol. Ther. 21 (4): 435–44. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2036.2005.02330.x. PMID 15709995. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) Antoniolus —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC).

Fuller's earth + paraquat, RCT involving AC in the The Lancet with plenty more. Based on orthodox medicine documented in medically reliable sources, all three suggestions would appear to be relatively uncontroversial. Talk pages are not for chatting, they are for suggesting improvements to main pages. WLU (t) (c) ^{(rules - simple rules)} 15:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the German version of this page links to something claiming that the stuff is an anti-diarrhea agent [[1]]130.39.188.24 (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Some PubMed links to be potentially included in the article. The topics covered are multiple, including detoxification, adsorption of specific toxins / chemicals, adsorption of virus and others. The uses of montmorillonite are wide and many according to literature, though still require further investigation. A few of the many available articles below:

Adsorption of reovirus to clay minerals: effects of cation-exchange capacity, cation saturation, and surface area.Lipson SM, Stotzky G. Appl Environ Microbiol. 1983 Sep;46(3):673-82. [2]

Specificity of virus adsorption to clay minerals.Lipson SM, Stotzky G. Can J Microbiol. 1985 Jan;31(1):50-3.[3]

Adsorption of a few heavy metals on natural and modified kaolinite and montmorillonite: a review.Bhattacharyya KG, Gupta SS. Adv Colloid Interface Sci. 2008 Aug 5;140(2):114-31. Epub 2008 Jan 17.[4]

Plank G, Bauer J, Grünkemeier A, Fischer S, Gedek B, Berner H. The protective effect of adsorbents against ochratoxin A in swine. Tierarztl Prax. 1990 Oct;18(5):483-9. German. [5]

These are all animal studies, and should be labeled as such in the article. Obviously large scale toxic testing will not be done on humans for ethical reasons, so anti-toxic effects will generally be animal studies. --Antoniolus (talk) 22:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

This article found it safe in human. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16019795?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum But without any data on if it is effective in humans not yet ready for inclusion as a medicinal product. We can eat lots of things does not mean they are either good or bad for us.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

MOntmorillonite as a body wrap ingredient?

Montmorillonite has recently caught my attention as an ingredient in body wraps. Just how much is it used is my question because as the Wikipedia article says it has absorbent properties. Just what is meant to absorb? Sweat? Fat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.9.109.194 (talk) 02:12, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Montmorillonite's use in body wraps is not directly linked to its absorbent properties IMHO. Its use in face masks is more so, because it helps to deal with oily skin (and pimples). See more in medicinal clay. Dyuku (talk) 18:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

table of contents?

This talk page had no table of contents. I just fixed this problem (by adding some space at the top).

Also, why is there no affiliation with WikiProject Geology? Dyuku (talk) 18:51, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, the American-English tag was presumably meant to be at the top? Dyuku (talk) 19:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

revert by Vsmith

What is the reason for this revert? It makes no sense to me. Dyuku (talk) 20:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Undone - "There are also many medicinal uses for Montmorillonite -- see Medicinal clay." as a weasely and unsourced link to a rather poor and rather promotional article. Vsmith (talk) 21:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

"unsourced link"??? Could we please see an example of a "sourced link"? I've never heard of a thing like that... Things here are getting curiouser and curiouser. Dyuku (talk) 06:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I must agree with Vsmith at this point. When one searches for Montmorillonite health effects on pub med it finds only a single article looking at safety in humans. No comments are made on health effects. We need medical literature comments on health effects. A link to another article is not sufficient. Please provide me with refs if I have missed any. Cheers Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Dear Doc James,

Here's some useful bibliography for you. I'm always glad to help a colleague with things like that... (This is also posted at Talk:WikiProject Medicine, where there's a relevant discussion.)

Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L (February 2005). "Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial". Aliment. Pharmacol. Ther. 21 (4): 435–44.

Adsorption of a few heavy metals on natural and modified kaolinite and montmorillonite: a review. Bhattacharyya KG, Gupta SS. Adv Colloid Interface Sci. 2008 Aug 5;140(2):114-31. Epub 2008 Jan 17.[4]

Callahan GN. Eating dirt. Emerg Infect Dis [serial online] 2003 Aug [date cited]. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no8/03-0033.htm

Globa, L.E. and Nykovskaya, G.N. "Sorption of bacteriophages by the cation-substituted forms of montmorillonite," Acta virologica, 28: 329-333, 1984.

Herrera P, Burghardt RC, Phillips TD. Adsorption of Salmonella enteritidis by cetylpyridinium-exchanged montmorillonite clays. Vet Microbiol (2000) 74:259–72.

Hu CH, Xu ZR, Xia MS. Antibacterial effect of Cu2+-exchanged montmorillonite on Aeromonas hydrophila and discussion on its mechanism. Vet Microbiol (2005) 109:83–8.

Tong G, Yulong M, Peng G, et al. Antibacterial effects of the Cu(II)-exchanged montmorillonite on Escherichia coli K88 and Salmonella choleraesuis. Vet Microbiol (2005) 105:113–22.

Broad-spectrum in vitro antibacterial activities of clay minerals against antibiotic-susceptible and antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens Haydel, Shelley E | Remenih, Christine M | Williams, Lynda B Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy [J. Antimicrob. Chemother.]. Vol. 61, no. 2, pp. 353-361. Feb 2008.

A systematic review of contact dermatitis treatment and prevention. Saary J, Qureshi R, Palda V, DeKoven J, Pratt M, Skotnicki-Grant S, Holness L. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2005 Nov;53(5):845. Review.

Characterization of clay-based enterosorbents for the prevention of aflatoxicosis. Phillips TD, Lemke SL, Grant PG. Adv Exp Med Biol. 2002;504:157-71. Review.

Treatment of toxicodendron dermatitis (poison ivy and poison oak). Guin JD. Skin Therapy Lett. 2001 Apr;6(7):3-5. Review. PMID: 11376396

[Prevention of allergy by protective skin creams: possibilities and limits] Schliemann S, Wigger-Alberti W, Elsner P. Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1999 Jul 3;129(26):996-1001. Review. German.

A novel organoclay with antibacterial activity prepared from montmorillonite and Chlorhexidini Acetas. He H, Yang D, Yuan P, Shen W, Frost RL. J Colloid Interface Sci. 2006 May 1;297(1):235-43. Epub 2005 Nov 23.

Investigation on the mechanism of peptide chain prolongation on montmorillonite. Bujdák J, Eder A, Yongyai Y, Faybíková K, Rode BM. J Inorg Biochem. 1996 Jan;61(1):69-78. PMID: 8558134

These are all relevant articles, although I haven't read them all. There's a lot more where this is coming from... Dyuku (talk) 06:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

montmorillonite and bentonite

Vsmith has stated that "bentonite IS montmorillonite plus ~10% volcanic crud n stuff". I would like to see some citation for that.

AFAIK this "truth" is not universally accepted by specialists. Does Vsmith really think that montmorillonite doesn't contain any "volcanic crud n stuff"?

Neither bentonite nor montmorillonite, in their raw state, can be considered in any sense as "pure". This is just simple logic. Both of these minerals vary widely in their contents. Dyuku (talk) 03:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Use in medicine and pharmacology

I have now added this new section, including 41 valid refs. Most of them are quite recent. The progress in science goes on, and let's hope that those with obscurantist views will somehow manage to reconcile themselves to new ideas and research.

Of course the section can be improved and expanded, but this takes time. Dyuku (talk) 03:38, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

There are so many unsubstantiated statements that it is tempting to do radical surgery to the main page.Lynxx2 (talk) 20:02, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Chembox

I removed the {{chembox}} from this article because it doesn't seem appropriate. There was a little information that might have use, so I'm copying it here. | CrystalStruct = C 2/m | LattConst_a = 5.17 | LattConst_b = 8.94 | LattConst_c = 9.95 ChemNerd (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Primary sources

Removed a bunch of primary sources per WP:PRIMARY - the majority of the refs in the Use in medicine and pharmacology were primary sources. Vsmith (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Lacking in information

When I search google (http://www.google.com/search?q=Montmorillonite+clay), many of the results are related to it's use in humans, yet when I come to Wikipedia to learn more about it, they talk about all it's uses except this. Article history shows someone removing large amounts of sourced info due to it being "primary". That's a counterintuitve rule for an info site, but ok. (I rather read primary sources directly than what some one thinks about it (secondary sources) and then form my own conclusions. You must start with information, right or wrong, first otherwise the third-party's analysis of it isn't very useful.) Anyway, all it says is "Montmorillonite clay is widely used in medicine and pharmacology" Oh, really? Yeah, google can tell me that.. how about wikipedia tell me why? 71.155.243.176 (talk) 05:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Uses of montmorillonite in non-explosive agents

In the uses section it is stated "Hence, Sodium Montmorillonite has come to be used as the major constituent in non-explosive agents for splitting rock in natural stone quarries...". No sources or examples are given for this statement. The major constituent in non-explosive demolition agents is Calcium Hydroxide or Calcium Oxide according to the MSDS's for these products. Does anyone know of Montmorillonite's use in non-explosive agents? Is there a reference or source for the above statement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgbasha (talk • contribs) 16:02, 8 May 2014 (UTC) ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgbasha (talk • contribs) 11:31, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Use of Montmorillonite in non-explosive demolition agents

In the uses section it is stated "Hence, Sodium Montmorillonite has come to be used as the major constituent in non-explosive agents for splitting rock in natural stone quarries...". No sources or examples are given for this statement. The major constituent in non-explosive demolition agents is Calcium Hydroxide or Calcium Oxide according to the MSDS's for these products. Does anyone know of Montmorillonite's use in non-explosive agents? Is there a reference or source for the above statement? Dgbasha (talk) 14:44, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Luminescent?

I've reverted the luminescent minerals category.

This was unsourced. It seems unlikely that a compound like this would be luminescent, and most unlikely that it would be a "luminescent mineral", implying eye-visible luminescence for the mineral mass as found.

Of course there is some thermoluminescence. Pretty much any clay will do that, it's used by archaeologists for dating potsherds. It's not interesting as a mineral as here. There is some work on using montmorillonite as a host matrix for exotic luminescent nanomaterials. That's the nanomaterial doing the work, not the montmorillonite, and not in the context of it being a native mineral as here.

See also Category talk:Luminescent minerals. This whole new category looks shakey. Viam Ferream^Talk 09:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

As luminescence covers emission of radiation as a result of a substance's exposure to various types of electromagnetic radiation, why do you need your extra condition "implying eye-visible luminescence for the mineral mass as found", for a mineral to be regarded as luminescent? Do you mean luminescence due to stimulation by visible (sun)light only, or are you referring to atmospheric temperatures and pressures? Mineralogists regard a luminescent mineral as a mineral that emits radiation as a result of the mineral's exposure to electromagnetic radiation (at atmospheric temperatures and pressures), regardless of the source being natural or man-made (e.g. a UV lamp).

By the way, I have cited my source for the minerals I've included in Category:Luminescent minerals at Category talk:Luminescent minerals.

GeoWriter (talk) 15:55, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I have two source references for the luminescence of montmorillonite :

Duda R. and Rejl, L (1986) Minerals of the World, Spring Books, pages 490–493.

Barnes, D.F. (1958) Infrared Luminescence of Minerals, United States Geological Survey Professional Paper 1052-C, page 84.

These are reputable, verifiable sources. Therefore, I'll restore montmorillonite to the luminescent minerals category.

GeoWriter (talk) 20:37, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

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