Talk:Omegaverse

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mambonumber7.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:51, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Edits by Sandstein

Not that I care enough to get into an edit war over omegaverse, but the wholesale revision of my edits by User:Sandstein, even the completely benign ones that are unambigious improvements – piping the link to Alpha (ethology), the addition of Template:Fan fiction – feels a lot like WP:OWNBEHAVIOR to me, and is somewhat concering behavior to see from an administrator. Morgan695 (talk) 15:07, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Talk: Mambonumber7

Hi all, I'm a university student currently working on expanding this page. I'll be moving some additions over shortly, specifically focusing on expanding the history section as well as the litigation/lawsuit section. Mambonumber7 (talk) 16:05, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Review

Hi Mambonumber7! The article was really informative and had good info throughout! I'm not too foreign from the omegaverse so I hope I can help as much as I can! I had a few notes to just add length and make the overall aesthetic a bit more pleasing!

Regarding imagery, obviously it’s hard to get those due to the topic being fiction. But, I think you can be a bit creative. For instance, the segment on AO3 could have the logo (which I believe is already on wiki commons!). Since, the entirety of omegaverse revolves around wolf-like biological behavior, perhaps adding a wolf next to the genre characteristics. Others could be Star Trek’s Kirk and Spock pairing, Supernatural ships, J.L. Langley, Yaoi, etc!

Additionally, perhaps focusing on how some of the pairings/ships come to life would add a bit of useful length. The page on fan fiction goes through the particulars of shipping, but perhaps you could add a line or two to clarify the specific ships you've chosen (as in why Kirk/spock—canon vs fanon—).

The article heavily focuses on male-male alpha-omegas, and you mentioned that het works have been produced. Is there any data available for the percentage of male-male to female-female to male-female? I think that'd be interesting and useful to commons of omegaverse vs the minority.

Lastly, regarding any yaoi centric genres, the topic of the sexualization of gay men by heterosexual women often comes up (similar to sexualizing lesbian women by men). Has this topic been brought up (by a reputable source) that you could perhaps use more for the history/impact section?

Overall, a great job so far with good information that helps build up the world of Omegaverse! 8isfate (talk) 17:29, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mambonumber7! I found this article to be really interesting and informative. You definitely seemed to touch on a lot of overarching themes that are directly related to Omegaverses and I think overall your article is at a great point. Like 8isfate mentioned above, I agree that you could potentially add more content if you wanted that connected to topics relating to this. I'm not personally super knowledge on the Omegaverse or its fanbase but I think adding some examples (potentially from sources?) might be a great way to further illustrate the concept to readers who also aren't as knowledged about this.

The content was well-organized and I thought you maintained a neutral voice throughout your article. I don't think it seemed promotionally or "fan"-like in any way. I would again agree with 8isfate's comment above in the creation of a history section. You could list how the omegaverse became mainstream, any problematic themes it runs into, or just general facts about how it came to be.

This was a really interesting read for me and I definitely enjoyed learning more about this subsection of the internet! Really unique topic! Crohbar (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Kanesku Alpha Enigma

I’m a little confused about why the following passage was included. As the passage itself states, the Enigma type character had no impact on the omegaverse world. Aromantic Frogge (talk) 06:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

“Through her work Kanraku Alpha Enigma, mangaka Shinshi Nakai subsequently tried to add the "Enigma", a new type of character who can mutate their secondary gender, but the novelty was resisted by Omegaverse fans and had no impact or continuity.”

I would agree with you if it was cited under the Genre characteristics section and not the History one, which covers how Omegaverse was made and changed. Despite failing, Kanraku Alpha Enigma tried to raise the dynamics upon which the genre is based from 3 to 4, and the attempt was major enough to be covered in scholarly researches, so I think it's worth mentioning. --Chiya^ko92 10:04, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

New Addition for the History Section?

Hi there! I want to gauge the thoughts of my fellow Wikipedia editors on citing the 2008 boy's love visual novel Sweet Pool as one of the first examples of Omegaverse fiction. It features many attributes of the typical omegaverse world:

>the all male lead cast are separated into three groups (secondary gender) being "Osu" (Alpha), "Mesu" (Omega), and just a standard human (Beta)

>An archaic version of the pheromone/estrous cycle

>Mpreg(?? idk if you would call it that the guy is pooping sentient meat)

The people I talk to also seem to think the series is at the very least omegaverse-like, but I would like an unbiased opinion from someone who is not a fan of the game before I make any changes to the page. I don't want to come of as too fanlike (as mentioned in previous talk posts) and would like to make my changes as neutral as possible. Giogio550 (talk) 07:12, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

There needs to be a source mentioning this as one of the first examples. All the current sources (even the ones in Japanese) mention Omegaverse starting from Western works (both fanfiction and original fiction). lullabying (talk) 09:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Dubious claim of origins

Omegaverse fan fiction appears to have become popular and spread from fandoms for texts that include werewolves, like Teen Wolf, Harry Potter, and Twilight (Busse 2013): the terminology is borrowed from Teen Wolf (Fazekas 2014); the stories include concepts from Twilight, such as imprinting (Busse 2013); and the entire idea of "these wolf-like humans" and their "wolf-like traits" (Busse 2013, 289) is, obviously, (were)wolf-inspired. Precisely which fandom birthed omegaverse fic is uncertain, but Busse (2013) speculates that "it was the Supernatural RPF fandom, J2" (291).

Busse makes it pretty clear in her work that the attribution to Supernatural is still speculation. This is followed by later works of fan scholars, like Duggan 2023 (quoted above), which also note that it is uncertain where omegaverse originates from. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 19:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Busse wrote that bestiality was previously present in other fandoms like Harry Potter's, "but it was the Supernatural RPF fandom, J2 (named for the first names of show leads Jared Padelecki and Jensen Ackles) and its kink memes that large-scale introduced bestiality into non-magical fandoms. It thus may not be coincidental that Supernatural and J2 fandom more than likely originated A/B/O." The Wikipedia page says that its origin is "typically attributed" to the Supernatural fandom, which sounds uncertain enough to me. I couldn't check Fazekas's 2014 masters theses that Duggan quoted (I got a 502 proxy error), but in the later paper used as a source on Wiki, Fazekas traced the Omegaverse chronology and wrote "Omegaverse fan fiction originated in the Supernatural fandom between the summers of 2010 and 2011" and that "On November 9, 2010, another anonymous user posted a prompt for a story involving "three types of men, alpha males, beta males, and omega males"–the first use of the full alpha/beta/omega tria that would become the standard in the omegaverse", so the terminology can't be borrowed from Teen Wolf since it started in 2011. Chiya^ko92 09:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Some of us have been in fandom long enough to remember the Sentinel/Guide fanon dynamics in The Sentinel fandom, which included both gen and slash narratives of animalistic traits (specifically wolf and panther) and ‘spirit guides’, some soul mate/bonding elements, mating/bonding bites, personality traits based on S/G identity such as dominance/submission, warrior/teacher etc. A lot of what we see in Omegaverse these days is familiar from TS days, especially the idea of being bonded on a chemical level and folks ‘coming online’ (‘presenting’) as one or the other identity. There were even similar tropes of oppression and sexualised violence against Guides as the smaller and more traditionally submissive type. I find it so weird that this never comes up in discussion of the Alpha/Omega subgenre. 124.168.60.165 (talk) 00:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

We would need a reliable source to cite this claim. This page is a place to discuss how to improve the article, not a general discussion on the topic. lullabying (talk) 01:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

One of the main considerations missing from this article are the literary influences. What about Patricia Briggs who made werewolf smut for the masses. Or the authors that influenced her like Kelly Armstrong. Werewolf smut is extremely popular today, but it came out of a vampire fiction movement. Anne Rice wrote about vampires and it exploded and all fiction for a short time was riding the vampire wave, then people got tired of vampires and werewolf stories started cropping up. Unless you read books, most of this movement was ignored but Buffy and Supernatural both come from this time period. Bitten by Kelly Armstrong is from 2001 and it’s the earliest example of werewolf smut I can think of. Patti Briggs has a series called Alpha and Omega from 2008, it’s hetero but many of the principles are in that work. I think the fan fiction market is where it was expanded into a fetish and became associated with queer lit. 108.36.203.78 (talk) 02:35, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

As lullabying said, we'd need a WP:Reliable source to insert any of that. If you can find scholarly discussion of such influences, they can be added; otherwise, it's WP:Original research and we can't include it.

TypistMonkey (talk) 14:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)