Talk:Peter Baker (footballer, born 1931)

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Football: Africa / England Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Football in Africa portal This article is supported by the African football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	English football portal This article is supported by the English football task force (assessed as Low-importance).

United Kingdom

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Sheffield Wednesday?[edit]

A Peter Baker played for Sheffield Wednesday for six months in the 1957-58 season, making twelve appearances.[1] Is it possible that this is the same Peter Baker, perhaps on a loan deal? Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 22:29, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Peter Baker (footballer) → Peter Baker (footballer born 1931) — Another footballer was born in 1934 and played in the same era, both players started their career at Tottenham Hotspur F.C. and could easily be confused by readers with little previous knowledge of either subject. Suggest adding year of birth to this page name and redirecting the old name to the Peter Baker dab page to avoid confusion. —Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 11:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related page moves. Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 11:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominator. Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 11:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Two grounds firstly there is a clear distinction in notability between the two individuals and secondly Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision) suggests in such cases a clear disamb message can successfully resolve any potential confusion. Tmol42 (talk) 11:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Since the supposedly disambiguating title of Peter Baker (footballer) is not in fact disambiguating, the alternative must be either Peter Baker (with no disambiguation) or Peter Baker (footballer born 1931) (with an actually disambiguating title). Even if the Baker born '31 seems to be more notable, it's not clear that he is so much more notable than the other to have his article title without disambiguation. Sebisthlm (talk) 13:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, agree with Sebisthlm above. Chanheigeorge (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as per all the above. If it were up to me, I would just make the move. It seems blindingly obvious to me to be the right thing to do. After all, defining notability is not far from PoV. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 22:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above BanRay 22:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Suggest simpler disambiguator than birth year, e.g., (right back) and (fullback), which would more readily distinguish between them. Dekimasuよ! 07:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Since right back and fullback are pretty much interchangeable terms, I don't think that that would be very helpful. Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 12:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. When I created this article I wasn't aware of the other footballer; if I was, I would probably have created it under the suggested new name and this discussion wouldn't be taking place. As someone says above, it's the obvious thing to do. Waggers (talk) 15:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per ~~Desi~~ Deki(masu). The Evil Spartan (talk) 17:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Who is "Desi"? Dan1980 (talk ♦ stalk) 17:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - As stated above, I don't think that right back and fullback would be helpful for dab purposes. If you can suggest a simpler solution than birth year then by all means do, but to me this seems the best way to disambiguate the two pages and is already common practise when two footballers have the same name. Dan1980 (talk ♦ stalk) 00:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, birth year is good to disambiguate by. Punkmorten (talk) 10:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:

WP:D states that: If there is extended discussion about which article truly is the primary topic, that may be a sign that there is in fact no primary topic, and that the disambiguation page should be located at the plain title with no "(disambiguation)". Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 12:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am not experienced enough to know if 3/4 of us politely debating this yet constitutes 'extended' CF the typical WP way. I guess my question is whether disam with DoB 1931 vs 1934 is the best/only approach given the history/ notability here. True there seem to be current examples where two dates are used but an equal number where one has a date and the other does not. Tmol42 (talk) 12:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure what constitutes extended discussion either, but I feel that the current "disambiguation" isn't particularly helpful. I am aware that there are several examples of this sort of disambiguation (where one has a date and the other does not) already, and have recently "fixed" several myself. I feel that they all need to be ammended (assuming that we can come to a consensus here and use this as a "test case"), and am happy to change any that anyone knows of. Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 13:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Outcome[edit]

Y Discussion for three weeks provided consensus to move. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.