Talk:Pope Paul VI

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Papal Homosexuality[edit]

Should his longtime boyfriend Paolo Carlini be mentioned, given that Peyrefitte in 1975 referred to him, and now since the death of both of them it is openly referenced. Engleham (talk) 03:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I've put it in.Fletcherbrian (talk) 01:54, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

It's been taken out! By a Catholic priest?Fletcherbrian (talk) 13:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

If you have a source, put it back in. Don't use this talk page to promote your own agenda. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. Given the article is reading like a pontifical press release, anything slightly dissenting would be refreshing shaft of sunlight. Here's my attempt, which was interesting to research. I'm aware of other other sources, but hopefully this does a fair job. Posner's book is a corker! I bet it's on Cardinal Pell's desk. I expect this will last all of 10 minutes, given Wikipedia now appears under the Holy See's watch.

Persona Humana and charges of hyprocrisy

In 1976 Montini became the first pontiff in modern history to deny the accusation of homosexuality. Published by his order in January 1976 was a homily Persona Humana: Declaration on Certain Questions concerning Sexual Ethics, which outlawed pre or extra-marital sex, condemned homosexuality, and forbad masturbation.[1] It provoked French author and former diplomat Roger Peyrefitte, in an interview published by the magazine Tempo, to accuse Montini of hypocrisy, and of having a longtime lover who was a movie actor.[2][3] According to rumors prevalent both inside the Curia and in Italian society, this was Paolo Carlini,[4], who had a bit part as a hairdresser in the Audrey Hepburn film Roman Holiday. Peyrefitte had previously published the accusation in two books, but the interview (previously published in a French gay magazine) brought the rumors to a wider public and caused an uproar. In a brief address to a crowd of approximately 20,000 in St.Peters Square on April 18th, Montini called the charges "horrible and slanderous insinuations" and appealed for prayers on his behalf. Special prayers for Montini were said in all Italian Roman Catholic churches in "a day of consolation".[3][4] In 1984 a New York Times correspondent repeated the allegations.[5]

The accusations again achieved prominence in 1994, when Franco Bellegrandi, a former Vatican honour chamberlain, and correspondent of its newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, alleged that Montini had been blackmailed, and had promoted fellow homosexuals to positions of power within the Vatican.[6] In 2006, the newspaper L'Espresso accessed private papers belonging to police commander General Giorgio Manes which confirmed the blackmail story, including that Aldo Moro, had been asked to help.[7][4]

Engleham (talk) 03:45, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Hitchens, Christopher, Christopher Hitchens on the death of Pope Paul VI, New Statesman, 28 February 2013. http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/02/christopher-hitchens-death-pope-paul-vi
  2. ^ Peyrefitte, Roger Mea culpa? Ma fatemi il santo piacere, Tempo, April 4, 1976.
  3. ^ a b Torress, Jose, Associated Press Paul VI Denies He Is Homosexual, Observer Reporter, April 5, 1976 p27 https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19760405&id=6G5eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mmENAAAAIBAJ&pg=1676,395778&hl=en
  4. ^ a b c Posner, Gerald God's Bankers: A History of Money and Power at the Vatican, Simon and Schuster, 2015 p174
  5. ^ "Hoffman, Paul" "Oh Vatican! A Slightly Wicked View Of The Holy See", Congdon & Weed, New York 1984 p151
  6. ^ Bellegrandi, Franco, NichitaRoncalli - Controvita di un Papa, Rome: Editizioni Internazionale di Letterature e Scienze, 1994, pp. 85-86, 91-92
  7. ^ Dino, Martirano Dossier su un tentato ricatto a Paolo VI, Corriere Della Sera 27 January 2006 p20 http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/2006/gennaio/27/Dossier_tentato_ricatto_Paolo_VI_co_9_060127066.shtml

This is a hagiography[edit]

Most of this article must have been produced by the Vatican. It's possibly the most one-sided biography I've read on Wikipedia. Even the tone makes you cringe. DeCausa (talk) 15:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I think by "Vatican" you may mean "Catholic priests". In which case I agree with you.Fletcherbrian (talk) 13:58, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I confirm. Panegyrical adulation. I trimmed down some. Zezen (talk) 20:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

His pontificate happened during many significant world events[edit]

POV selection, should be removed. Xx234 (talk) 11:03, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Dioceses plural[edit]

This is a peculiar construct. I wonder if it is reflected in the offline source. An archbishop is only in charge of one diocese. An archdiocese does not "contain" the suffragan dioceses in the province. They are headed by other bishops. The authority of an archdiocesan bishop over suffragans is mostly ceremonial and very weak in reality. So I would not support the reversion of this passage back to the plural form of "departed for his dioceses", unless of course that is what is described in the source and the accompanying demographic information of 1000 churches, etc. Elizium23 (talk) 17:04, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Sold or Donated Tiara?[edit]

On this page it says Paul VI donated his papal tiara to an American Christian group, while on the page for Papal inauguration it says it was sold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.8.91.38 (talk) 21:46, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Should add Pope VI imposter theory, or link to article on it, if exists[edit]

I thought this was here before. It should be added, because it's a fairly well-known conspiracy theory, and part of the cultural interpretations regarding him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.74.25 (talk) 00:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  • I've never heard of this in my life so it's hardly "well-known". I think we could do without giving an outlet for every crack-pot conspiracy theory in the world! What's the conspiracy - that he wasn't really the same man? Bizarre. Contaldo80 (talk) 11:31, 24 February 2017 (UTC)