Talk:Population ageing

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wtf[edit]

automatisation? thats not even a real word... anybody wnt to clrify

It's French for "automation" (though one English dictionary lists a definition for it). Most ghits seem to be for non-English pages. I've changed it to "automation" in the article. --Underpants (talk) 01:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Consistency of spelling throughout article[edit]

Changed the spelling to "aging", since the great majority of occurances of the term "aging" on the world wide web use this spelling. "Aging" shows up 213 million times, while "ageing" shows up about 40 million times on Google. The article also looked oddly inconsistent using the alternate spelling when all its references (which the article was apparently based on) and see also links used the main spelling. The article is now consistent. --Transhumanist 11:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I've revereted you. Wikipedia has very clear rules, it doesn't matter what spelling is more popular, both American and Commonwealth English are perfectly acceptable. The rule is that whatever spelling was used first, is used forever. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English. - SimonP 12:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
(Oops! We're working on this at the same time!) Wikipedia policy on spelling is clear. This article seems to be a weird case, though. It, like most articles written on aging, uses the Canadian/American spelling, but the original title seems to be (though I'm looking into the original change made by SimonP) "ageing". Let's not make any more changes until this is discussed further here. For the time being: "ageing" in the title and "aging" in the article seems best. BrianinStockholm 12:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

SimonP- Did you not, however, originally change "Aging population" to "Population ageing"? (I'm too busy now to investigate closely.) -BrianinStockholm 12:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is a link to the earliest version. The spelling "aging" does not appear once in that article. Also I'm not sure what you mean by the American/Canadian spelling, I'm Canadian and I certainly always use "ageing", as I did when I created this article. This page never existed at "Aging population," that was simply one of several redirects I created so no one would be confused by the different possible names. - SimonP 13:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
1) All the Canadian research gerontologists I know spell it "aging". 2) About the spelling in the article, and the original title: OK! Pardon rushedness BrianinStockholm 13:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
No trouble. In Canada it is often a generational thing, older people tend to use more American spellings and younger ones use British. - SimonP 20:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


Benefits of an ageing population[edit]

Judith Healy Australian National University Discussion Paper Number 63 March 2004 ISSN 1322-5421

© The Australia Institute This work is copyright. It may be reproduced in whole or in part for study or training purposes only with the written permission of the Australia Institute.


From: The Australia Institute

To: 'Paul Nollen'

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:49 AM

Subject: RE: The benefits of an ageing


Dear Paul

Sorry it has taken me some time to answer your email. We would be happy for you to use the link for Wikipedia however we will be launching a new web site in the next few weeks so I will let you know when the url changes.

Kind regards

Kelly Bruce The Australia Institute Innovations Building #124 Eggleston Road ANU ACT 0200 Ph: 02 61251270

It does not mean all this.this is a false answer

Spelling[edit]

The "shit in the..." and "copulation"? (In the first paragraph under contents alone!) Article looks like it was thrown together pretty quickly.

Cleanup required[edit]

I have added a couple of tags to the top of this article. The references in the article are incomplete. I have improved a couple of them. Some of the references, however, are lacking enough information to be useable as references. Additionally, the references in this article are not properly formed - they are embedded rather than cited using the citation tag. The article as a whole needs a little attention from a referencing point of view. I will try to improve this as I am able. Hybrazil (talk) 05:51, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I've worked on improving the references. I think we could delete the tag at the top of the article (?) Miami19 (talk) 14:43, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Aging not combatted by immigration[edit]

The article presently says: "Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world, based largely on the rationale of countering population ageing. The C. D. Howe Institute, a conservative think tank, has suggested that immigration can not be used a viable means of countering population ageing."

This gives the impression that it is only a right-wing voice making this comment, whereas I am aware that there are a number of moderate voices saying the same thing. It would be good if the article reflected this. I will try to find some references to this effect as a state-of-the-art issue.

Hybrazil (talk) 05:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


I have found a reference to a moderate view that expresses this viewpoint now.

McDonald, Peter & Kippen, Rebecca 2000. Population Futures for Australia and New Zealand: An Analysis of the Options. New Zealand Population Review 26(2): 45-65.

My (basic) understanding of the dynamic is as follows: The problem ostensibly is that to prop up a population with shrinking fertility, ever increasing levels of immigration are required, as the immigrants themselves become a part of the population regime and age along with the existing population. This then requires even more immigration to offset the larger older population (now bolstered with immigrants who have grown old). Each generation, then, the immigration levels must increase vis the previous generation or the population structure will revert to a structure where the elderly form the bulk. This problem becomes exacerbated when countries (esp Western countries) compete to attract immigrants.

Hybrazil (talk) 14:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Doubtful statements[edit]

There are several doubtful statements in this article.

For instance it is not in general true that a population which is not growing is one that is aging: it is possible to have a steady state demographically, or a population which is shrinking and becoming younger at the same time, because a hump of elderly people is being removed from the population by death.

It is also not true that elderly people have a greater propensity for saving - the time after retirement is when dis-saving occurs.

Ehrenkater (talk) 13:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is a rather odd statement. You can only save if you have an income. Plus, all the 'ageing apocalypse' scaremongers seem to forget that currently the rate of unemployment is around 8% for Europe. So only 92% of the active population is working for both the inactive population (young, old and stay-at-home parents) and the unemployed (because of social security). Therefore if the proportion of inactive in the population rises, there is still a reserve of unemployed to balance the working/non working ratio. With increase of the use of machines, productivity per worker is higher so there's no need for as much workers. Population ageing is a good thing, it just requires to realise that we are not in the "one mouth to feed is two arms to tend the fields" world any more. AtikuX (talk) 04:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Abortion and euthanasia[edit]

The article should maybe mention the role of abortion and euthanasia in the phenomenon of population ageing. In countries and regions where the abortion rate is very high, such as Russia and Quebec, the lower birth rates have been shown to be related to the higher abortion rates. Also, in contemporary societies like these, there is a similar temptation to allow greater use of euthanasia in order to “compensate” the excess of elderly people that were born before the era when abortion legislation was first passed. ADM (talk) 19:00, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Even worse in Third world[edit]

Population ageing is even worse in Third world. Argentina and Uruguay became old and poor. The same is happening in Brazil.Agre22 (talk) 17:15, 26 December 2009 (UTC)agre22

"Excepting 18 countries termed 'demographic outliers' by the UN[1][2]) this process is taking place in every country and region across the globe."[edit]

I highly doubt this statement. In most developing countries the median population age is getting younger rather than older. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.56.91 (talk) 07:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Largest contributor to population ageing[edit]

In the article it is written "it is declining fertility that is the largest contributor to population ageing" with a reference. I think the statement that fertility is the largest contributor is absurd. Average life expectancy was much lower in the past. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html shows it has changed from sixty years old in the year 1930, to seventy eight years old today in 2013. That is eighteen (18) additional life years. This large number of longer lived people makes the population average age higher.--Mark v1.0 (talk) 13:20, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Dr. Canning's comment on this article[edit]

Dr. Canning has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:


Generally very high quality article

I think a basic definition of population aging as a rise in the proportion of old people (those 65+) rather than the average age of the population would be more standard. The economic implications should start with economic growth effects due to a fall in the working age share and savings rates Should have reference to national transfer accounts (NTA) by Lee and Mason on inter-generational transfer patterns Discussion of dependency rate formal definition (<16, >65) versus actual dependency due to longer schooling and early retirement would be good


We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

Dr. Canning has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:


  • Reference : Klaus Prettner & David Canning, 2012. "Increasing life expectancy and optimal retirement:does population aging necessarily undermine economic prosperity?," PGDA Working Papers 9112, Program on the Global Demography of Aging.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 07:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Stancanelli's comment on this article[edit]

Dr. Stancanelli has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:


1.

However, recent studies in some countries demonstrate the dramatic rising costs of health care are more attributable to rising drug and doctor costs, SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED NURSES, and higher use of diagnostic testing...

Here you could explicitly mention the issue of shortage of qualified nurses as I suggest above. And perhaps refer to my overview of these issues in:

Stancanelli, E. (August 2015), Institutional long-term care and government regulation, IZA World of Labor. http://wol.iza.org/articles/institutional-long-term-care-and-government-regulation/long

2. Private residences for the elderly also provide many services related to health and social participation (e.g. pharmacy, group activities and events) on site, however they are not accessible to the less fortunate.

Here again you could refer to my study above which also overviews some of the most recent literature in this area.

Stancanelli, E. (August 2015), Institutional long-term care and government regulation, IZA World of Labor. http://wol.iza.org/articles/institutional-long-term-care-and-government-regulation/long

3. Due to the aging population, globally, many countries seem to be increasing the age for old age security form 60 to 65, to the decrease the cost of the scheme of the GDP.[5]

Here there are a number of typos and also the statement is not very precise. Here some suggestion for improvement:

Due to the aging population, globally, many countries have raised the age for old age security form 60 to 65 or even further, to reduce the cost of these schemes and the negative impact on GDP .[5]

And I would also suggest adding references to:

Gruber, Jonathan and David Wise (2005), "Social Security Programs and Retirement around the World: Fiscal Implications, Introduction and Summary,"NBER Working Papers 11290, National Bureau of Economic Research, Inc.

4. Forms of discrimination: economic accessibility, social accessibility,temporal accessibility and administrative accessibility.[29]

Here I would also add nursing home and long-term care abuses. so perhaps write:

. Forms of discrimination: economic accessibility, social accessibility, care accessibility, temporal accessibility and administrative accessibility.[29]

And again you could refer to my work : Stancanelli, E. (August 2015), Institutional long-term care and government regulation, IZA World of Labor. http://wol.iza.org/articles/institutional-long-term-care-and-government-regulation/long


We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Stancanelli has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:


  • Reference : Stancanelli, Elena G. F. & van Soest, Arthur, 2012. "Joint Leisure Before and After Retirement: A Double Regression Discontinuity Approach," IZA Discussion Papers 6698, Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA).

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 16:38, 2 August 2016 (UTC)