Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sociology

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WikiProject Sociology (Rated Project-class, High-importance)
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A discussion of interest to this project...[edit]

...can be found at Talk:Prostitution#Sin. BMK (talk) 18:26, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Moving the Genderqueer article to Non-binary gender[edit]

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Genderqueer#Requested move 4 June 2016. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Help with an article?[edit]

I'm going to be posting this in several different areas, but I was wondering if anyone could help out with the draft Draft:Rape joke. I think that this could be independently notable outside of rape culture, but the draft needs a lot of work and it'd stand a better chance of holding up to scrutiny (since let's face it, this would get a ton of scrutiny once it was accepted) if we had multiple editors working on it. Anyone interested? Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 05:45, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject: Bullying[edit]


I would just like to inform you about Proposal for WikiProject Bullying. If you have any comments on this matter, either use my talk page or use the proposal page. Thanks,

East Anglian Regional (talk) 09:58, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Looking for feedback on a tool on Visual Editor to add open license text from other sources[edit]

Hi all

I'm designing a tool for Visual Editor to make it easy for people to add open license text from other sources, there are a huge number of open license sources compatible with Wikipedia including around 9000 journals. I can see a very large opportunity to easily create a high volume of good quality articles quickly. I have done a small project with open license text from UNESCO as a proof of concept, any thoughts, feedback or endorsements (on the Meta page) would be greatly appreciated.


--John Cummings (talk) 14:54, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

White savior narrative in film and The Matrix[edit]

There is a request for comment underway regarding whether or not to include The Matrix in the list of films at white savior narrative in film. The RfC can be seen here: Talk:White savior narrative in film#Inclusion of The Matrix. Editors are invited to comment. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 18:09, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Time-off (annual vacation)[edit]

I know in Europe employees get much more generous paid time-off than in North America, but do we have an article about this other than Paid time off? USA Today has some information on the topic at: Some companies force workers to stop working, use time off. Ottawahitech (talk) 01:21, 21 August 2016 (UTC)please ping me

Racism in South Korea[edit]

Hello, I hope I can reach out to somebody here to have a further look on the article Racism in South Korea.

There is a dispute about the use of webblogs and the notability of an event. More is stated on the Talk:Racism in South Korea#Reliability of Weblogs and you can see also some minor notes in the "history". It would be nice to get some more opinions since the article is mainly protected by one user. The issue is that there was a bar owner in Seoul who set up a note at his bar that due to Ebola, he would not let in black people. He apologized four days later, said, it was due to his bad English skills and gave out some beer. I find this event highly insignificant for an article like this. It is as notable as a local murder. Maybe a bad comparison, but still, it should not be in this article. And maybe you can also give your opinion on the use of webblogs. Thanks. --Christian140 (talk) 08:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

PS: Actually, I have more issues with the article which completely lacks any scientific approach. The article is basically build up on news reports. However, I think news reports are only legitimate for articles on current events, video games, films and persons. However, articles on racism and discrimination should follow sociological research. Moreover, in contrast to the United States, which has been a melting pot from the beginning, South Korea is a homogene state. So, research is apparently also just at a beginning stage, making knowledge based on news papers even more invalid, I think. Furthermore, I think when the article is named "racism in South Korea" it should follow the definition of Racism. Even, if an wikipedia author does evaluate events by herself/himself, it is original research. Nonetheless, the article also has a section Discrimination against North Korean defectors. In my opinion, racism and discrimination are not the same. Therefore, some could argue that this section does not belong in the article.

Conducting an article like "racism in South Korea" is much effort. Basically because it is not a textbook topic like let's say Product Innovation Charter, where you can find a basic theoretical introduction in books and get very specific literature from databases. So, my approach to start an article like this would be to search for international ranking/indexes that follow a scientific approach to get a country comparison. Than someone could look for literature reviews to get a hold of the state of art of and find some more articles on databases like Google Scholar or ScienceDirect. I cannot see how source articles can give any information on such a new, in regards of South Korea, and specific research field. --Christian140 (talk) 08:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

@Christian140: You are mostly right. The article is in a bad shape, full of anecdotal examples based on low quality sources (blogs). Now, news can occasionally be use to fill in such an article, so I wouldn't say all the news sources should be removed, but such an article should be based on academic sources first (and those do exist). Frankly, this article - given its sensitive topic - is not far from being a candidate for WP:TNT, because it seems to be written almost like a rant, in a style that resembles journalistic one much more the encyclopedic. The story about the bar ([1]) could be kept, but not as a weirdly placed image / caption. I think the quote from the ambassador is relevant, and could be reported in the article, but the trivial case of the bar itself is not really worth mentioning, except in the context of citing an ambassador who commented on the racism in Korea. PS. Regarding looking for sources, I'd also suggest the use of Google Books. PPS. I see you nominated it for AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Racism in South Korea and I voted keep. Well, having looked into it again I do think that the article is salvagable, but half if not more of the content should probably go. Sadly, I don't have time to dissect it right now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:53, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
@Piotrus: Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately I also don't have the time to imporve the article. But at least the most "ridiculous" information should go and it is also a problem that Spacecowboy is "protecting" the article, making constructive improvements nearly impossible. The user also has a history of highly questionable edits. Unfortunately, the article is apparently not on the watchlist of many other users. The ambassador opinion could be relevant, but I would not mentioning the bar more than maybe like: "The Kenyan ambassador took up position in the course of a incident in a bar in Itaewon to the topic of racism in Korea. He stated that ′the issue of racism is very deep.′" That is not well worded. I just mean, the focus should clearly lie on the ambassador while the bar event is not notable but just "triggered" a statement. Considering there are ten-thousands of bars in Seoul and the owner made a sign to not let in black people due to Ebola and removed it one hour later, apologized and said it was due to bad English. The owner is not even a public figure. --Christian140 (talk) 09:17, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


The discussion is ongoing with Prokonsul Piotrus' lengthy analysis here: Talk:Racism_in_South_Korea#Problems_with_citations. Further, I propose to place {{TNT}} at the head of the article. I have no time and will not edit the English wikipedia any further. Spacecowboy420 continously bullying and alleging me of being offended by a disagreeing opinion. Although, every edit and change I made at the article, I justified lengthy on the summary and on the talk page, but it was promptly reverted by the user. If another user made the same change, he did not revert it. Although my proposals were backed by other users, he did not accept it. He seems to have a personal problem with me since I have less edits than him on enWP. Well, the English wikipedia is not my home wiki and I just wanted to raise attention for a biased, not well-sourced article. Unfortunately, unsuccessful. I will leave the literature that Piotrus collected and that I expanded, here.

Futher citation issues, just for reference

Also, there are of course more citation issues with the article. In the section "employment discrimination", it states "with even Irish expatriates suffering some discrimination, with South Koreans viewing them stereotypically as drunkards." This is not in the content of the citation [2], also not on the second page. However, by googling you can at east find something [3]. However, it is a single incidents, so you can not conclude that "South Koreans viewing them stereotypically".

Moreover, it states "Many employers in South Korea often ask for a photograph as part of a job application, to ease the process of employers engaging in racist discrimination." This sounds like the reason for application photos is to discriminate other races. However, the reason of them stem from history of course. Application procedures differ from country to country, and in some countres, photos are usual and in other countries are not. Nevertheless, there is a risk that a photo makes application discrimation easier. The statement is biased.

In the section "Marriages and relationships". "International couples have often been forced to leave South Korea due to most South Koreans harshly disapproving of relationships between South Koreans and foreigners." The source only can be found after the following sentence. It is about a football player, who left Korea with his wife. [4] There is no general statement, still, here on wikipedia it is depicted as if this was often the case.

One might should also note the conditions under which the article was created, with the main author stating: "It's pretty disappointing that the article is very small, considering the extremely widespread nature of racism in South Korea. I'll try to expand the article a bit." It is also quite dangerous for the neutrality of an article, writing with such a biased opinion.

Starting from scratch seems reasonable. --Christian140 (talk)

Problematic article[edit]

List of countries and dependencies by population is an article that is relevant to this project. After having it drop off my watchlist some time ago I returned on 9 August 2016 to find that the population table is constantly being edited without any indication of sourcing, or edit summaries, usually by IPs or newly registered editors. The complete lack of sourcing for new edits means that the data in this article is dubious at best. One particular problem that I found is that data templates, which are used to automatically calculate today's population based on official sources, have been removed and replaced with unsourced manual calculations. Several times now I have had to restore these templates after yet another unsourced, unexplained change.[5][6][7][8][9] I have now tagged the article to identify issues, and requested semi-protection, but the input by responsible editors who can update the article with accurate, sourced data is needed. --AussieLegend () 04:40, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I'll reply at Talk:List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population#Unsourced_additions_and_original_research. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:29, 30 August 2016 (UTC)