Talk:Presidente Prudente

On 18 June 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Presidente Prudente, São Paulo to Presidente Prudente. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 18 June 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. On the basis of this being the English Wikipedia and it thus being more likely that people looking for the term "Presidente Prudente" in English are trying to get to the city. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:17, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

– The city is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, no other article named "Presidente Prudente (Xyz)" has more views than it. See also the discussion below, copied from WP:RMTR: —capmo (talk) 02:52, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Presidente Prudente → Presidente Prudente (disambiguation) – Presidente Prudente, São Paulo is clearly the primary topic: the president who gave his name to the city is nearly unknown to most people. After the move, Presidente Prudente will be made a redirect to the city. —capmo (talk) 17:52, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Hi, is there a reason you're saying the city should stay where it is and the base name redirect to it, rather than move the city to the base name? Dr. Vogel (talk) 02:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Hi Dr. Vogel, no reason whatsoever, I just thought of the simplest solution for this. But indeed, as the primary topic, the city could also be moved to "Presidente Prudente" and receive a hatnote pointing to the disambiguation page. —capmo (talk) 03:01, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Thank you for explaining that. And when you say that the city is the clear primary topic, what are you basing that assessment on? Dr. Vogel (talk) 07:08, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] In Portuguese, the president is better known as pt:Prudente de Morais; when someone specifically speaks of pt:Presidente Prudente, it's the city that comes to mind. Note also that none of the other wikis use a disambiguation for the city name (except for cebwiki and nlwiki that have different articles for the city and the municipality): Presidente Prudente (Q525618). Regards, —capmo (talk) 13:28, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] The president's page gets more page views than the city, so I'm not convinced by the arguments to change this, a dab page seems best. At least it needs to be discussed anyway. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] As I said, in Portuguese it's the opposite, the city gets more views: [1]. It really doesn't matter, anyway, because the two articles have completely different titles, there's no ambiguity; no one is going to search for "Presidente Prudente" in the enwiki expecting to find the president's biography. They will most likely search here for president Prudente, or for the whole name Prudente de Morais, as the graphic you cite demonstrates. In the English language, the name Presidente Prudente is unequivocally associated with the city only. —capmo (talk) 22:50, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] I think the question is ultimately about whether on enwiki the city should have the base title over the disambiguation page, and my gut feeling is probably yes, but it'd be good to be able to make a convincing argument. Dr. Vogel (talk) 03:47, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dr. Vogel, I think the argument given above for the move request is quite convincing. But I'll give a couple of other examples:

We have São Paulo (the city proper), São Paulo (disambiguation), São Paulo State University, São Paulo Metro etc. There's no reason for São Paulo to be made a disambiguation page just because it's named after Saint Paul.
Similarly, there is Los Angeles (the city proper), Los Angeles (disambiguation), Los Angeles River, Los Angeles Basin etc.
So, why not Presidente Prudente (the city proper), Presidente Prudente (disambiguation), Presidente Prudente Airport, Presidente Prudente Formation etc.?

I hope the examples above will convince you that this request is indeed uncontroversial, as initially stated at WP:RMTR. —capmo (talk) 14:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. If the city's name was Prudente de Morais, I would probably oppose this move because there wouldn't be a clear primary topic between the city and the president. But the city's name is Presidente Prudente, and when readers searches for that particular term, it's far more likely that they're looking for the city. For an analogous case, Louis IX of France, who is a very significant historical figure, is sometimes called St. Louis. But the article titled St. Louis is the city in Missouri, simply because people who type "St. Louis" into the search bar are quite unlikely to be looking for the king. I think the city of Presidente Prudente is "highly likely...to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term" (emphasis added), so I support making it the primary topic (with appropriate hatnotes, of course). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:18, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.