Talk:Road signs in the United Kingdom

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Untitled[edit]

There are a number of repeated signs I wonder whether some were missed?--Rjstott 11:36, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone have a picture of a pre-Worboys sign that could be added to the history section? There are still a few of these around in use, particularly in rural locations. Mazzy 16:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Bilingual signs[edit]

Do they have Irish names in Northern Ireland? Aren't there also signs in foreign languages at major ports in England - 'Drive on the Left'?--JBellis 21:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Late comment but yes. Added information to reflect this. --Nidonocu 16:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
No - Road Traffic Signs in Northern Ireland do not have Irish on them. Exceptions are made by some local councils for mainly nationalist areas within some towns, however this only extends to street-name signs and not to Road Traffic signs. Road Traffic signs in Northern Ireland are identical to those in England, however as mentioned in the article, are governed by a separate law specific to the Northern Ireland Assembly. This means that the agility is there should the Northern Ireland Assembly wish to introduce such a change. Jonnyt (talk) 08:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

History[edit]

There should be a link to Margaret Calvert here, and some expansion of the history. Justinc 11:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Unique Signs[edit]

The article states that "conform broadly to European norms, though a number of signs are unique". Which signs are unique to Britain?

Yellow squares, circles and triangles[edit]

On some signs there are small yellow symbols (squares, circles and triangles). The one web site that seemed to have an answer no longer functions. I guess they are military. Does any one have a definitive answer? JMcC (talk) 10:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

They are nothing more exciting than official diversion routes in the event of a major road closure. They seem to be rarely used, but overnight roadworks especially may use yellow diversion signing that says: "Diversion, follow {symbol}" at the start, with no further marks than the symbol on the permanent signs. They are not military. If you follow the Highways Agency documentation (and probably the Highway Code) you'd find it documented. The HA do have planned preferred diversion routes depending on which section of the motorway network is compromised. Dogbiscuit (talk) 13:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
They're not just for the event of a road closure. They are used for drivers unfamiliar to the route, especially haulage drivers, to direct them around towns etc. SimonTrew (talk) 19:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Heights in metric?[edit]

Is that true they are only in metric? I think the other way round.

I recall a case where a Swedish driver who took his truck under a low bridge got off because it was not signed in Imperial. It would say some trouble finding it (and fairly obviously he knew how tall it was in metric) but he got off cos the sign was only in metric not Imperial. If this is true and not an urban legend this needs fixing in the article (an my looking up the referene of course). SimonTrew (talk) 19:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Heights on roads signs are in imperial units (mandatory) with metric as an optional extra. Heights on garage canopies, entrances to buildings etc are often only in metric units - A Very Britsh Mess. Martinvl (talk) 05:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Design errors[edit]

The first two pictures on the page are described as having 'design errors'. What are the errors? Murray Langton (talk) 12:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Well at least one of them was introduced by an anon IP editor with no edit summary, and since they couldn't be bothered to explain/justify it at the time I think that, unless there's a response soon, it would be appropriate to simply remove the "errors" bits. To be honest I don't think they can ever work well in the captions - they would need to be properly explained in the text where there's more room. At least the rather nauseating "unfortunately" which used to be attached to the upper caption is long gone! So if they can be explained in a nice clear way then great - otherwise I think they should just come out. Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Fine, I've removed the 'design errors' from the captions. Murray Langton (talk) 15:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
If any editor wishes to add pictures showing errors, then they should be in a specific section that deals with errors. Pictures, especially in the lede should depict typical road signs. Martinvl (talk) 19:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Yep, seems reasonable to me. I don't think the lead photos and their captions can accommodate drive-by snarky comments - I am assuming that the people who made those comments are some sort of experts and can justify them (in fact I'd bet good money that that is the case), but, as you say, doing it in the right place would be good. Cheers DBaK (talk) 08:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Comment: the editor who wanted them in has shown up again and I've invited them to pop in here and help us out! Cheers, DBaK (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I'm that editor. The problem is that these 2 photos (not mine - they've been on the page for years) are very bad and do not illustrate the topic well. Each has about 6 major errors. For example, on both signs there are arms with blue panels, which indicate that they lead directly onto a motorway, but they each also have a non-motorway route on that same arm, which is impossible. I agree this page is not the place to talk about bad signing or to explain common errors. Basically these photos need removing and replacing with good examples, otherwise there is a danger that they will be taken as typical of UK traffic signing, which they are not.77.44.42.53 (talk) 13:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
The second sign (presumably at Gatwick Airport) has the motorway numbers in brackets, indicating that the road leads to the indicated motorways rather than being a direct connection to a motorway; hence the blue panel is not an error on this sign. Can you detail the other 5 major errors please. Murray Langton (talk 14:06, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) Also, come to look at it, isn't there a slightly odd duplication - both the top two photos show (errors notwithstanding) roundabout signs on primary routes. Am I going nuts or are these just two examples of the same thing? Because, if so, surely we only need one of them, which for a start would leave us only discussing one photo. Or?? Cheers DBaK (talk) 14:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry Murray, but a blue panel indicates a motorway being joined immediately, irrespective of the brackets. You are thinking of a blue patch (around the route number alone) that indicates a motorway some distance away. Read Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 7 and TSRGD if you're still unclear on this. The lower (Gatwick) sign is the worse of the two: other errors on it include the use of the large Motorway alphabet (it's only used actually on motorways) and a parking destination not on a white panel. The upper sign has the borders and corner radii that are too large on its blue panels, too small an x-height for "Services" (which for current rules should be on a blue or white panel) and spacing generally is too tight (i.e. closer than Chapter 7 specifies). Not good examples, and I agree the Gatwick one should be deleted immediately; has anyone got any better ones?77.44.42.53 (talk) 16:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
The white non-primary route sign (starting "Stoke Gifford") further down the page is well designed and should be promoted to the top, where I recall it was originally. The construction joins are rather prominent, but it's good apart from that.77.44.42.53 (talk) 16:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
That all sounds perfectly reasonable to me, so I've done it. It would be nice to get a less error-prone green one for the top, as that's so familiar, but for the time being this seems quite a nice compromise. No? Cheers DBaK (talk) 21:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Fine by me. Murray Langton (talk) 09:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

"UK signs depict classical silhouetted persons."[edit]

I removed the above sentence which constituted its own separate second paragraph of the lead in splendid isolation. To be honest I am not even sure what it means but I would have thought that if the point needs making, it needs making more clearly and at an appropriate point in the body text. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, slightly clearer now - this user had a sort of categorization drive - see their edits on 13/9/2010 - in which all the road sign articles were categorized into stick or classical figures. I sort-of see the point, but I don't think that adding all these random-looking sentences to the lead was the right way to go about it. I'm not, however, thinking of starting a war over this so I will just leave my edit, and these comments, and see what develops. I am not saying it is necessarily bad information, just misplaced and somewhat contextless. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree Martinvl (talk) 12:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Old style road signs[edit]

I noticed an old style road sign still (just about) in use in my town earlier today, and uploaded a photograph of it if anybody would like to use it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roadsign_uk_oldstyle.jpg --Beeurd (talk) 16:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

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Illegal signs[edit]

My understanding of the word "illegal" is that a criminal offence is being committed. Unjustly making such an assertion could be libellous. Wikipedia policy is quite clear - libellous statements are to be deleted. Unless you can quote a reliable legal source which contradicts my statements, then don't make them. Moreover, making an assessment that a road sign is illegal, esopecially when http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/contents/made Section 8 of the TSRGD 2002] explicitly gives the minister the authority to authorise any sign that is not in the TSRGD is WP:OR. Either way, the word "illegal" should not be used. (updated) Martinvl (talk) 05:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I think you're over-reacting a bit here, Martinvl. I'm sure that "libellous statements" in Wikipedia policy would refer to statements about people, not inanimate objects! I suspect that you and I know full well that though TSRGD allows for the Minister for Transport to authorise any sign he or she wanted to, that Hell would freeze over long before a sign giving only metric measures would ever receive such treatment!
Might I suggest that in cases like this that the phrase "not prescribed by TSRGD 2002" be used rather than "illegal". I agree that "illegal" seems to imply criminal offence, yet failing to comply with TSRGD does not appear to carry any such weight. Steve Hosgood (talk) 08:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

No entry sign in Gibraltar[edit]

Does thw "No Entry sign in Gibraltar" picture add anythbing to the article? I don't think so, unless the point of this picture is to draw attention to the "10 km/h" sign (in which case a better picture whoudl be used). Martinvl (talk) 20:05, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

This article is called "Road Signs in the United Kingdom". I don't understand why Gibraltar's signs are in here at all. If there's enough interest in Gibraltar's signs, may I suggest a new page "Road Signs in Gibraltar"?. I do like the "no roller blades or bikes" sign though! Steve Hosgood (talk) 08:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
There is a section "Northern Ireland, Crown Dependencies and overseas territories " - which says "Roads signs in ... are teh same as those in the United Kingdom except ...". Martinvl (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Rare metric signs[edit]

Are metric signs in metres really rare and illegal? There is one near my house that is in metres. Could someone confirm if they are actually rare. Here is a google maps link to a sign in metres near my house. https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ll26&hl=en&ll=53.129419,-3.777752&spn=0.036513,0.104628&sll=49.5,22&sspn=40.673602,107.138672&hnear=LL26,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.129405,-3.777621&panoid=458KEwkq2_2Vwbuo0J7RPw&cbp=12,260.66,,1,5.49 I am refering to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metric_UK_road_sign.tif Owen4004 (talk) 21:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

By law all distances on distance signs must be in either imperial yards or miles so yeah, that sign is illegal 86.133.62.150 (talk) 20:59, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Distance Signs[edit]

Yous forgot about the signgs that show distances to certain places 86.133.62.150 (talk) 20:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Urdu Signs[edit]

Does anyone have any facts about the claim that Bradford is makeing signs in Urdu? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.157.195.129 (talk) 11:34, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

The only "fact" is that the signs shown in the photos here - and most if not all the supporting text - are FAKES. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Here's the original image, before the Urdu was photoshopped on. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8165562,-1.7197972,3a,75y,143.4h,75.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3p5-RXP6P9cbV3b4LVYp3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Andy Dingley (talk) 13:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
http://newobserveronline.com/urdu-street-signs-new-britain/ is now a dead link. I guess they realise they've been conned. Now it just "never happened".
Although Google still has a cached copy at http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o1iSDpVpT-UJ:newobserveronline.com/urdu-street-signs-new-britain/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk Andy Dingley (talk) 13:20, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Complete overhaul[edit]

Do you support the idea of making this page a list of SVG Diagrams of UK Road Signs like Road Signs in the United States and Road Signs in Australia --TheSpaceFace Let's Chat 05:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

I think I would prefer the current style, which makes for a more interesting and informative article, with the history, design styles, etc. If readers just want a simple list of road signs there are better places online to get that information, eg [1]. --TBM10 (talk) 10:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

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