Talk:Robb Thompson

International College of Excellence

This is a non-USDE accredited "college". I think the term "accredited" should be removed or it should be clear that this is the case as to not be misleading.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.23.62.159 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 23 March 2009

Life Christian University

There currently are, or have been pictures of Robb Thompson on the Life Christian University website receiving his "Doctorate". Why he does not list this in any of his books or on any websites is unknown to me? Maybe a personal communication is in order.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.23.62.159 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 23 March 2009

I don't mind as long as info is properly sourced and meets WP policy. However I looked at the article on Accrediting Commission International and found an attack piece that had no roots in policy that I could tell. If you can find additional sources the community can consider them. Please remember to sign your comments with four tildes ("~~~~"), to start new sections within double hyphens ("==Title=="), to test links before inserting them to see if they are ambiguous (I'm changing "[[ACI]]" to "[[Accrediting Commission International]]"), and to put punctuation like commas before footnotes (",[1]"). Thank you for taking the time to learn the ropes. JJB 01:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

NPOV

This article hardly has NPOV, most sentences are fragments and what does students wearing t-shirts to school have to do with Robb Thompson? This article has serious issues.75.34.187.110 (talk) 01:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It is quite possible that Chrisfhc60477, Truesources, FamilyHarvest, and Cladmin1 are the same person. These users seem to have an agenda to keep this page promotional to Robb Thompson's interests. This user/these users do not understand Wikipedia and apparently need to get a blog, instead, for their purposes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.204.83 (talk) 01:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Accreditation

He received his doctorate from Life Christian University, an institution that lacks accreditation recognized by either Council for Higher Education Accreditation or United States Department of Education, the two institutions responsible for recognizing educational accreditating institutions in the United States (see List of unrecognized higher education accreditation organizations, re Transworld Accrediting Commission International[7]).

How is that relevant to Robb Thompson? If you want to discuss the university's accreditation, I believe it would be appropriate to start the Life Christian University page. The source is just linking to Life Christian University's homepage. All in all, it's not relevant to the main article. Adotrde (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Of course it's relevant. The article says that he "received a doctorate". Is it a real doctorate? If we omit the information that allows the reader to form a view on that question, there is, rather obviously, a problem with WP:NPOV. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:58, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

That's why I took out the part of him receiving a doctorate. No established sources on this page or through Google claim he's received a doctorate (and I searched high and low). Can you find one? The info is very WP:NPOV, negative in light, I believe. Adotrde (talk) 17:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm changing it to: "Thompson earned his doctoral degree from Life Christian University, an unaccredited institution in Tampa, Florida." This is a fact and conforms to WP:NPOV imo. Adotrde (talk) 17:11, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, you didn't take out that part -- you left it. At least one article refers to "Dr Robb Thompson", and the church website makes this claim as well. I don't see why your suggestion is superior to the current version. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:14, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I added the info, it is now clear that the university is unaccredited without dragging on. The previous version is obviously better suited for the Life Christian University page. And I didn't revert you this time, I added what you wanted and just edited to make it appropriate to "Robb Thompson" himself and not the university. Check out Joyce Meyer's page and how the editor went about including info on her doctoral degree. Adotrde (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The problem you have now is that there's no source... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There was no source before either, check back and see the website it linked to (the page was removed and it links you to the home page). I'm still researching and trying to find a good source. Will probably link to the University's website where it states it is not accredited. Adotrde (talk) 17:41, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

How's that? I'll be continuing to edit. Goal is to get it all neutral and remove the top note. :) Adotrde (talk) 17:46, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Acceptable. The previous version was what made sense given the references available at the time -- this is why it included the extra text (with internal links, in lieu of a footnote/reference). Are you associated with the church and/or Thompson? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:53, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Edits

"that has graduated other world-renowned preachers and teachers including Dr. Kenneth Copeland and his wife Gloria, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn and Rodney Howard-Browne among many others. " This is relevant. There are hundreds of Wiki articles that go about describing the University by mentioning who else is graduated, and since the University doesn't have a page of itself yet, I believe it can be noted.

"(an organization not recognized by either Council for Higher Education Accreditation or United States Department of Education, the two institutions responsible for recognizing educational accreditating institutions in the United States)" This is very awkward. If you click on Accrediting Commission International, you can get all that information so it's just redundant in the article and like I mentioned, awkward.

I'm ok with removing renowned, although plenty of sources refer to him as such. Adotrde (talk) 12:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I've added that it is an unrecognized educational accreditation corporation but made it much shorter so that it doesn't drag on. What about the first part? Can we agree on adding it into the article? Adotrde (talk) 12:22, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Will add source (forgot about that) to the degree.net page most likely but looking for an even better source. Will not add the Quackwatch one because that's just Stephen Barrett's project isn't it? It's almost blog-like, not very "reliable". Adotrde (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Just found it's called the Dan El Institute for Higher Learning. Researching to find more info and will make changes to reflect these edits. There's nothing about the other college? Adotrde (talk) 12:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• No, I don't agree to adding a big list of other names. As for the other changes, as with yesterday's discussion there is a reason it was done this way, so a discussion here can work out the best way to make needed changes, if any. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:31, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, didn't add the other names. I have added the info on Dan El Institute for Higher Learning and kept that "was the president International College of Excellence, a Bible college accredited by the Accrediting Commission International, an unrecognized educational accreditation corporation" although it's not properly sourced (there are mentions on it online, but nothing credible, you know?). I find it very odd that "International College of Excellence" doesn't come up with more info in Google actually--but it's "there" I just can't verify the accreditation or lack thereof, or when it was "shut down", why it was "shut down" etc. Adotrde (talk) 09:03, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

References

Central India Theological Seminary

Their FB: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Central-India-Theological-Seminary/181990568494511#!/pages/Central-India-Theological-Seminary/181990568494511?sk=info Their Website (under construction....): http://centralindia.org/

The only place where Robb is associated with them is on their Wiki page: Central India Theological Seminary and even that is unsourced, so I'll leave a citation needed there. Google comes out empty, and his old college is practically non-existent online. Will be asking around for more details. Adotrde (talk) 09:23, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Edits 2

1. (his television programs, "Winning in Life" and "Issues Of Life" are broadcast by KGEB, KTBN-TV and CastTV among others and are watched by millions in the United States and all over the world) References: http://www.kgeb.net/links/ http://www.casttv.com/video/dckxsf1/winning-in-life-with-pastor-robb-thompson-v-2-0-video http://www.tbn.org/watch-us/our-programs/issues-of-life-with-robb-thompson

The tbn.org website references the millions (among other sources I can add if you need).

2. (speaking and advising business and government authorities world-wide) Reference: http://www.streamingfaith.com/index.php/directory/broadcaster/29084/

Streaming Faith is the world's largest online faith based broadcasting portal with 24-hour broadband TV stations, fifteen radio stations, and experiencing over 2,500 live ministry events per month. (how is that not notable?) Adotrde (talk) 10:43, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Neither of these meets WP:RS for the purpose of supporting the material you are adding ("watched by millions" and "advises leaders/governments"). In both cases what is on offer is blurbs designed to help sell the programs, no doubt using information and claims supplied by Thompson himself. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 11:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Are you saying KTBN-TV are lying? That his programs not watched by millions? Are you saying that Streaming Faith are lying? That he hasn't spoken to business and government leaders? Adotrde (talk) 11:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:LYING doesn't exist as far as I know. I am saying that they do not meet WP:RS for this purpose. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 11:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

What purpose? If KTBN-TV say millions are tuning in, I think that is relevant. Adotrde (talk) 11:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Again, I do not believe that these sources satisfy WP:RS. A television station could be a reliable source, particularly for statements made by its news department (where one would expect to find a degree of editorial control/judgment). But the web links you are trying to use are produced by marketing departments, for the purpose of marketing the shows, again no doubt using information supplied by Thompson himself. The idea that they do not satisfy WP:RS (particularly for the "advises governments" claim) is not a judgment I am having any difficulty making. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:02, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Changed references. Still going to keep adding more. Adotrde (talk) 14:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Murdock

dos anyone have and information on what happened with this investigation and what it lefd to?

Weas either pastor convicted?

Murdocks page doesnt say anything either Kip Kip 78 (talk) 12:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Question on sourcing

This sentence fragment: He speaks and advises government authorities world-wide is supported by some sources that I'm not sure meet our sourcing standards. They are:

• City News - A Singapore publication that appears connected to something called the "City Harvest Church" ([1])
• (also [2] )
• The Christian Post (appears more reputable)
• And also a Chicago Tribune article, which is certainly reliable, but doesn't seem to support the factual assertion above.

Opinions? — e. ripley\^talk 19:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that they are a problem (I tried dealing with this a few days ago but got no joy at 3RRN). The Singapore publication is clearly connected (hadn't noticed that). The Christian Post piece is really nothing more than an event listing, and they appear to have taken a press release from Thompson or his minions -- it doesn't verify the statement in question. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 19:26, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, and the reference to his worldwide activities is clearly just taken from some corporate PR text that was provided as part of the entry. These references to the scope of his worldwide evangelical empire really need better sources. — e. ripley\^talk 19:46, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Even if the sourcing were okay, I think the wording would not be. I get the sense that what this amounts to is: he gives lectures, and business-people (and perhaps the occasional govt. minister) show up. The way it's written ("advises"), one has the sense that Sarkozy rings up his buddy Robb for advice on (say) how to deal with Muslim veils. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, he has advised African government authorities, not Sarkozy, namely Kenyan and Ugandan. I'll try to find a local Kenyan / Ugandan newspaper that talks about his visits. Adotrde (talk) 09:32, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

If you know this without having a source for it to hand, then I'm curious to know how you know it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 11:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I read it on his blog, http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/CachedPageMain.aspx?archive_id=930813741&page_id=1738387506&page_url=%2F%2Fwww.robbthompson.com%2Fitinerary.html&page_last_updated=1%2F26%2F2007+10%3A19%3A49+PM&firstName=Kevin&lastName=Loo but obviously that isn't a reliable source. Adotrde (talk) 11:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

If that's the extent of his being counselor-to-world-leaders, then the language probably should be tamed down a little and written more specifcially, along the lines of -- Thompson advised who on what topic. — e. ripley\^talk 15:15, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

And it should appear only in a later section, not in the lead. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:37, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I've removed that passage. If proper sources can be produced, then an appropriate addition can be made to a lower section. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:21, 1 May 2011 (UTC)