Talk:Robert Bruce (opera)

Date of premiere

Copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera:Voceditenore (talk) 09:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I saw the date of the premiere of Robert Bruce (opera) was given as 23 December 1846 in the article La donna del lago citing Richard Osborne's 2007 edition of Rossini. Several other sources I checked give 30 December as the date of the premiere. After changing Robert Bruce (opera) to 23 December, based on Richard Osborne 2007 book, which does indeed have 23 December, I decided to check Le Ménestrel (see vol. 14, no, 4 (27 December 1846)). This seems to say the premiere was postponed to the following Wednesday (i.e., the 30th) because Rosine Stoltz was indisposed. My French is hardly perfect. Can someone else who can read French check whether this is correct? Thanks for help! --Robert.Allen (talk) 03:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it does say that. This article by William Ashbrook gives the 30th as the premiere (also in his Donizetti and his Operas). Ditto Weinstock's biography of Rossini. Ditto Gioachino Rossini: A Research and Information Guide (Routledge, 2010). Ditto Casaglia. Note also that the following week's issue of Ménestrel vol. 14, no, 5 (3 January 1847) reviews the premiere [1]. I'd trust Ménestrel and Ashbrook et al. I think Osborne got it wrong. Voceditenore (talk) 06:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like they also say that other Paris newspapers reported on the 24th that the premiere had taken place If that was so, perhaps that accounts for Richard Osborne's error. I'll revise my edits back to 30 December and link Le Ménestrel to say why we think Richard Osborne is incorrect. Thanks for the help! --Robert.Allen (talk) 08:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, in the revised 2nd edition 2007, Osborne himself says its the 30th. See [2], p. 257. Where did you get 23rd? Voceditenore (talk) 09:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting. I have the hardcopy of the 2007 second edition and on p. 137 it says 23 December 1846. (And this is apparently what the editor who added the info to the article La gazza ladra used). However, I just checked p. 357 (actually not 257), and yes it says 30 December there. So that's an inconsistency in his book. (Digital searching certainly helps to find things like this.) BTW, do you also read Le Ménestrel to say that some journals reported on the 24th the premiere had taken place? --Robert.Allen (talk) 09:21, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To my reading, it says the official announcement of the postponement and the explanation had appeared in the press on the 24th, and it then goes on to quote the announcement. Voceditenore (talk) 09:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that given the inconsistency in Osborne himself, the current footnote is misleading. What is the wording of the full sentence on p. 137 which allegedly says it was the 23rd, only to be contradicted on p. 357 where he says it was the 30th. Also, the postponement of the premiere belongs in the main text of the article, not in a footnote. See Philip Gossett [3], p. 600, which also gives the 30th date. According to Weinstock, the libretto had already been printed for the 23rd before the premiere was postponed, hence the errors in some sources. Voceditenore (talk) 09:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, better idea. I came at this from the La donna del lago article, so I was originally think p. 137 was correct. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the start of Osborne's paragraph: "The adaptation had its premiere at the Paris Opéra on 23 December 1846, after which it played to packed and appreciative audiences throughout the winter. Had it been a new opera, it would have been a critical success. Unfortunately, pasticcio, once so popular, was now more or less taboo. A long and bitter controversy ensued, with contributions from Heller, Berlioz, and even Olympe herself, who announced that she was sending a pair of ass's ears to the editor of the Journal des Débats and to Berlioz." :-). --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:10, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's also my impression that a lot of musicians in Paris wanted to have Pillet ousted from his directorship at the Opéra, and they were trying to use Robert Bruce to help in that cause. I might be able to turn up a source for this. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the original version so we can start again from scratch. Unfortunately, I have to leave my desk now, so I can't spend anymore time on this at the moment. If you have the time and enough info, please modify it, and I'll come back later to check it out. Thanks! Update: Also, please check over La donna del lago, since that is where the error ended up having to be corrected. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Charles-Antoine Cambon - Set design for the première of Rossini's Robert Bruce, Act III, Scene 3.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for June 8, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-06-08. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.8% of all FPs} 13:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Bruce is an 1846 pastiche opera in three acts, with music by Gioachino Rossini and Louis Niedermeyer to a French-language libretto by Alphonse Royer and Gustave Vaëz, after Sir Walter Scott's History of Scotland. The music was stitched together by Niedermeyer, with the composer's permission, with pieces from La donna del lago, Zelmira, and other Rossini operas. The work was premiered on 30 December 1846 by the Paris Opera at the Salle Le Peletier. This illustration is the set for act 3 of the opera, taking place in the ramparts of Stirling Castle, designed by Charles-Antoine Cambon.

Set design credit: Charles-Antoine Cambon; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Plot?

Why does this article contain nothing at all about the plot of the subject opera? One would think that that would be the most important aspect of the article, the sine qua non for its existence, yet there is nothing. We have the cast of characters (and who played them in the premiere), and the set designers for the premiere, but the only hint as to the plot, other than the name of the opera, is the POTD note that the third scene takes place in Sterling Castle.

I mean, c'mon. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]