Talk:Sally Amis

A fact from Sally Amis appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 February 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that British novelist Martin Amis believes his sister, Sally Amis, was one of the sexual revolution's most spectacular victims?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/February.

Wikipedia

Notability

It seems strange that she gets so much space, but if you see her as an example, perhaps even a symbol of the negative consequences of the sexual revolution, then she becomes more notable. Farrtj (talk) 05:22, 13 May 2011 (UTC)Shouldn't this be under the Pregnant Widow page? Martin Amis's sister is important only inasmuch as she figures in the novel. It seems odd and somewhat sexist that this entry is longer than the entry for the novel. (208.120.188.34 (talk) 21:42, 23 June 2012 (UTC)).She did ,however , have a very fine poem by Philip Larkin, 'Born Yesterday' written to commemorate her birth.[reply]

What did she DO though?

no disrespect, but this is an awful lot of wiki space taken up by somebody who did absolutely nothing other than be born into a famous family HieronymousCrowley (talk) 20:59, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem baffling that such a lengthy and exhaustively-referenced article concerns someone who – with the best will in the world – is notable only for being Martin Amis’ sister and Kingsley Amis’ daughter. She apparently has a character based on her in Martin Amis’ new novel, but this information is surely better suited to a paragraph in that novel’s page or in Amis’ own.

-K- (talk) 14:10, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A lot has been written about her because of the problems she had, and people are clearly interested. This article was on DYK as a minor hook for just six hours, yet it got 6,200 hits and ended on the DYK stats page. It would be too much to merge into another article. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 22:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

People are interested in her now because Amis has released a new book. This article is just too long. It's longer than the article on Kinglsey Amis! Again, her only claim to fame is the fact that a character is based on her in 'The Pregnant Widow', and her relationship to the author.

This, in itself, isn't really enough to justify such a lengthy and detailed entry; any interest in her by the general public is surely a by-product of interest in Martin Amis and his new book, and hence information on her would be better put in those entries. The entry as it is is too long to merge into the Pregant Widow or Amis' entry, but is all this information on her strictly necessary?

A paragraph in the entry on The Pregnant Widow would suffice, surely? -K- (talk) 13:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't longer than Kingsley Amis; both are 2,800 words readable prose. It's true that Kingley hasn't been built up properly, but that's unconnected to this one. I can't see any reason to start chopping information out of this. It's all sourced. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 22:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have to do anything to be notable in Wikipedia. Thinks of all those royals. Or Patrick Bouvier Kennedy - he didn't have a chance to do very much, poor chap. Rothorpe (talk) 01:30, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

High School Years

I added a section on Sally's high school years, but it was removed by SlimVirgin due to "we need sources for these additions". Being new to this, I am not sure what "sources" entails. I added the following:

"In 1967 Hilly married D. R. Shackleton Bailey and Sally moved with her to Ann Arbor, Michigan, in the United States. While in Ann Arbor Sally attended Pioneer High School for grades 10 and 11. She made numerous friends and was considered a popular girl in her circle. She dated one boy exclusively for a one-year period through 11th grade and the following summer. Even at this young age Sally showed her need for constant companionship and approval. During a brief respite from the relationship she immediately began dating another boy. It was during this period that Sally discovered drink. Although her group of friends experimented with different drugs she demonstrated a predilection for alcohol. Sally lived in Ann Arbor until the summer of 1969 when she returned to England to finish school. She returned briefly to Ann Arbor to visit her mother and friends during the Christmas break of December 1969. Although over time she and her friends lost contact with one another, she is remembered quite fondly by some."

I am the boy mentioned above. That provides me with first hand knowledge of Sally during that period. However, I will not be able to document that with additional evidence.

I also added the following:

"(It should be noted that her friends in the U.S. are not aware of any concerts she attended with the Hell's Angels). "

None of our group had any dealings with the Hell's Angels. Quite frankly that is ludicrous. It may be that Sally returned to the U.S. at a later date, but I am not aware of that. I would ask what sources are there that indicate she had any interaction with the Hell's Angels? None that I see.

Pgm a2 (talk) 15:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Pgm, we have two policies called Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research, which say we need reliable published sources for all the material we add to articles: sources such as books, papers, or newspaper articles, for example. So if you want to add the above, you'll need to show us that it has already been published somewhere. I'm happy to help you write and format it if you're not sure how to do that.

Something else you might be able to help with if you knew her is in tracking down a photograph of her that we could use in this article. There are photographs out there, but they're all copyrighted, and the photographers won't release any of them. We're only allowed to use "free" photographs on Wikipedia, so if you have one you own the copyright on and would be willing to release that would be a great help. SlimVirgin ^{talk contribs} 00:11, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect

I've redirected the article to The Pregnant Widow, the novel that has a character based on Sally. I've been feeling increasingly uncomfortable about her portrayal here. I had hoped that more sources would become available to round out the bio, but they haven't, so I think a redirect is the best thing. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:10, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect Removed

The redirection is confusing: the novel should not be confused or conflated with the historical person. Hence I've knocked that out. Any relevant biographical information about Sally could or should be confined to the novel, but it's difficult to see why she would merit a wikipedia entry in her own right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.24.68.165 (talk) 22:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]