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Good article Shetland has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Need better map image[edit]

In the section Shetland#History there is a map showing the Shetland islands in a box between two other land masses. I guess it's a topographical map. However, there is no labeling on the land masses to show someone who is not familiar with that geography what the land masses are, and no hint in the caption, either. One needs to click on the image and read the fine print in the image file to learn the names of the two land masses either side of the Shetland islands, but even that does not tell which is which. Wouldn't it be more helpful to the average reader trying to learn about the Shetland islands if there were a map with the nearby land masses clearly labeled? CorinneSD (talk) 03:30, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

It is the GEOLOGICAL map. No GEOGRAPHIC map. This map was made ​​for who want to know more about the geology of the Shetland. The geograpphic maps there are many.

Cicconorsk (talk) 19:30, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree. An editor made an attempt to make the map more understandable by adding information to the caption, but I think a geographic map, with land masses labeled, and possibly also the north-south-east-west compass points indicated, would be better. If the topographic map (showing elevations) is also desirable, perhaps it can be included in the section on geology. CorinneSD (talk) 21:09, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
There may well be something more useful on Commons but I don't think the current set up is too bad. You have a map at the top showing the archipelago in relation to Scotland, the geology map and then the topo map in the History section - where arguably this information is most relevant. If it were to remain there and have landmasses identified it would, in that context, ideally show the historical information rather than the present day. I would love to be able to create good quality maps but sadly I have not yet learned how to do that. Ben MacDui 14:24, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The "Etymology" section links to Northern Isles, where this
Map of the Shetland
is used. It is also used at List of Shetland islands which links from "Geography and geology". I have added it: acceptable? --Qexigator (talk) 17:05, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
User:Qexigator, I think the map you added is too similar to the map at the top of the page. There is no map in the article that has the neighboring land masses labeled (not just the seas). For readers who do not instantly recognize the shape of Scotland, the map at the top of the article does not help to locate the Shetland islands. CorinneSD (talk) 18:58, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

1_too similar, but it locates the places, which the others do not, so that helps the reader without resorting to the other articles; and I feel it can be retained as a useful part of the article.

Beschreibung: Ausschnittskarte der Shetlandinseln

2_readers who do not instantly recognize the shape of Scotland: but they can read the adjacent first sentence- "...the Shetland Islands, is a subarctic archipelago of Scotland that lies north-east of mainland Britain". Is that not clear enough for anyone? But it is strange that none of the available images (in English) include a label for Scotland or Britain. Perhaps it's not a real problem. This one in German would not be suitable. The open sea between German Bight and Scapa Flow!

Qexigator (talk) 21:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
User:Qexigator I understand your desire to have a map that indicates the towns and cities, but isn't there another map that doesn't have those big red and black dots? Those dots are so big that they are distracting. I've seen geographical maps (indicating towns and cities) that look a little more visually attractive. As for the other issue -- the other type of map -- I like the German map itself very much. It really locates the Shetland islands relative to the surrounding land masses. I wonder if there were a way to substitute English labels for the German labels, and if there were, whether we'd be allowed to use it. CorinneSD (talk) 21:39, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Could be, but it's a question of what is available, is it not, as well as what looks best on the page. Adapting the German image for use here goes beyond the user-skill limits of ... Qexigator (talk) 22:43, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Re "I think the map you added is too similar to the map at the top of the page." - I agree. I have moved it down to the Econs section where there is room and so that it is just above Transport, where various places indicated on it are mentioned. We are not (yet) blessed with a cornucopia of maps - but bear in mind that if someone wants to know where Scotland is they just have to click a link. Ben MacDui 08:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

I think this thread is slightly missing the point. The map in question is in the history section of the article, and its purpose is to enhance understanding of the Shetland's history - not to locate them. The map is that should locate the subject is the infobox map. With that in mind a few thoughts:

  1. The infobox map - should be a locator - so this not this. In general, infobox maps are plain without labels (cf Sicily, Germany, Isle of Wight). More detailed maps throughout the article are good, and current setup is fine on that eg one in economy showing the towns, one in geography/geology showing geology etc.
  2. The map in the history section is inadequate - it tells you nothing about Vikings. IMO most suitable map style would be a labelled, political map, of a given date. For example, File:Europe, 1700 - 1714.png and File:Europe 1812 map en.png show Europe at the start of 18th and 19th C. A sequence of maps (dated to eg c 700, 1000, 1300 and 1600) would be most valuable, as that can show the changes more effectively than a single image. If a single image is used, one showing Shetland as part of Norway (so c. 1000) would be most valuable.--Nilfanion (talk) 10:58, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Just to let you know that I've added a link to this thread on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Maps#Shetland_islands, if you can specify what you need, someone there should be able to assist you. EdwardLane (talk) 12:07, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

The people at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop may be able to help if you can agree exactly what is needed: at least a list of dates, each with a list of which region should be which colour. Certes (talk) 14:04, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Hj = Yogh? Dunno.[edit]

Yogh generally shows or sounds as as "gy-," "g-" or "y-" e.g. Menzies-Mingus yett-gate. It's close, but hardly "almost identical" to "hj."

Also, if memory serves (Yeah, I know, it often doesn't.) the misapprehension of the Yogh as Zed happened early enough among English speakers to have influenced the current "Sh" pronunciation. Anmccaff (talk) 07:13, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I was going to ask how the SH pronunciation came about. SH is a unique pronuciation of yogh, it seems. I'd be surprised if Z became SH, but I could be wrong. Also, SH is so late that maybe it's misleading to speak of it as a pronunciation of yogh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Calegon (talkcontribs) 13:42, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

A devoiced palatal approximant (or voiceless palatal approximant, or voiceless palatal fricative) is similar enough to a voiceless palato-alveolar sibilant for the approximant to be replaced by the sibilant – compare hue vs. shoe. Presumably, Scots lacked a word-initial sound like [ç] at the time (as opposed to word-internally, as in nicht or richt), so it had to replace the Norse or Norn hj (still pronounced as [ç] in Icelandic, but as [j] in Faroese and on the Continent) by the closest available sound, sh. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:22, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Inclusion of Gaelic name for Shetland (Sealtainn)[edit]

(Text copied from page User talk:Ogress as user suggested continuing the discussion on this page.)

Gaelic in Shetland

Hello Ogress,

I see you reverted my edit of the Shetland article. Although I don't disagree with your statement that the 2005 law made Gaelic an official language in Scotland, I believe that the Gaelic name for Shetland has no place in the Wikipedia article, definitely not as prominant as it currently is. This leads people to believe that Gaelic is or has been widely spoken in the Isles. I am a Shetlander and all of my ancestors back to well before the 1700s were from there. The only Gaelic I heard in my time in Shetland was in a Tennants Lager advert based on Whisky Galore. The first time I heard of Sealtainn was reading this article.

As is stated in the article, Shetland is culturally and linguistically distinct from mainland Scotland. Shetland's dialect is derived from a mixture of old Norse and Scots English. In the Scottish Gaelic article ( the percentage of Gaelic speakers was less than the 2% threshold required to put the isles on the map.

Please reconsider your inclusion of the Gaelic name in the article or if you have to, qualify it by stating that Gaelic is not a language which was traditionally spoken in Shetland.

Best Regards,

Stuart Irvine — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirvine42 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Sirvine42 It'd be best to have this conversation on the talk page: Talk:Shetland. I understand that language is a fraught issue, but it has an official name in Scottish Gaelic, one of the official languages of the land. A section on language would seem prudent anyway as it was a Norse settlement and many words entered the Gaelic languages from Norse due to this settlement such as rosualt "walrus". Ogress 18:53, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I agree, a seperate section on language would clarify things. I'm not a linguist so am not qualified to do this. I have contacts in the Lerwick museum though and will ask them to contribute.
I still disagree about the prominence of the Gaelic name for Shetland though, expecially above the flag. You wouldn't mention a Kurdish name for Basrah in the city's Wikipedia page for example yet it is one of the official languages of the land. Something on the style of the Isle of Lewis page might be appropriate. The Gaelic name could be mentioned as an aside, leaving the opening paragraph of the Shetland article for the development of the name over time (Hjaltland, Zetland, Shetland). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirvine42 (talkcontribs) 19:41, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Basrah is located on the border of Kurdistan, I don't see why it wouldn't get Kurdish. Also I'm unclear why this is a big deal because it's literally just a single name. Ogress 20:26, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
The Lewis and Harris page o Wikipedia has the English, Gaelic and Norse name for the island, despite, Gaelic being the predominant culture there. Of course the Norse still has a place as it was part of the Kingdom of the Isles, as does Gaelic in Shetland. If you follow your logic, there should only be the English name for Shetland, as, regrettably, no other language is spoken there anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leanseahy (talkcontribs) 09:16, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Not quite the same since Gaelic was never spoken on the Northern Isles, was it? Gaelic should not be shown per MOS:FORLANG. It states "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name can be included in the lead sentence", Gaelic isn't closely associated with Shetland. Scots is, and in the 2011 census, over half the population reported that they could speak Scots. Rob984 (talk) 10:10, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Gaelic may (and I stress may) have been spoken by Gaelic monks in the 5th century on the islands but apart from that, yes, Gaelic hasn't been spoken there. Pictish was, but that wasn't Goidelic, it was Brythonic.

The thing is, Gaelic is a recognised language, so all place names should be given in it. Norn isn't even spoken anymore so flit makes sense to only include Norn/ Norse translations for areas settled by Scandinavians. I see your point but ultimately it's only a name. It doesn't represents an invasion of Shetlandic culture, that was already done 600 years ago by the Scots "language." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leanseahy (talkcontribs) 10:21, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

It's a recognised regional language of the UK, but we aren't going to add a Gaelic name for all places in the UK. Scottish Gaelic is today only a regional language of Scotland. Also, Scots is recognised as well. Mentioning the Gaelic name in ethology section is not a problem, but per MOS:FORLANG, it shouldn't be included in the lead. As for the infobox, I don't mind including Gaelic since its non-intrusive and a summary of the whole article. Rob984 (talk) 12:22, 12 September 2016 (UTC)