Talk:Smallville season 9

Separate Article

This page should be a separate article.

When we have reliable sources confirming episode titles we'll do that.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 12:46, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Episode List

Episode 16 called "Escape" airs April 2, 2010
Episode 17 called "Checkmate" airs April 9, 2010
Episode 18 called "Upgrade" airs April 16, 2010
Episode 19 called "Charade" airs April 23, 2010
Episode 20 called "Sacrifice" airs April 30, 2010
Episode 21 called "Hostage" airs May 7, 2010
Episode 22 called "Salvation" airs May 14, 2010
(Vondring (talk) 23:05, 1 March 2010 (UTC)) By the way, season 9 starts today. NewYorkCity101 (talk) 21:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

It's mentioned on here, we just don't know what the plot is because the CW hasn't released anything yet.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:02, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

There are plots on the article. Please look at them and add the plots to this article. If there is no plot, please write "TBA". NewYorkCity101 (talk) 22:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"TBA" is irrelevant for the plot. It's assumed. Given that the plot section doesn't appear unless there is something in it, we don't have to just put something in it for the sake of it.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:38, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I guess I'll add everything then, with sources. NewYorkCity101 (talk) 12:27, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikia is not a source. It's a user created page. It's not reliable. Neither is Kryptonsite, DevotedToSmallville, IMDb, TV.com, or many other websites. TV Guide and MSN.com are the most reliable sources, because they only post what the CW officially releases.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Possibly Wikia is correct, but thanks for the info. Also, TV.com is a reliable source. NewYorkCity101 (talk) 19:56, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

No it isn't. They get their info from user submitted content (like IMDb and Wikipedia), and it's often from scoopers or stolen from Kryptonsite.com (which is a fansite).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I added the dates. Please leave the page the way I edited it. NewYorkCity101 (talk) 00:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I've reverted them. As I told you, TV.com is not a reliable source. It's user submitted.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:11, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand. TV.com episodes are only added with a reliable source. I'm not saying it's on there. That's where most people get episodes. NewYorkCity101 (talk) 12:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

No they aren't. If you register you can provide them with whatever information you want. I'm sure they check it, just like IMDb checks it, but it's still not a "reliable source" by our standards, and it's often fallible. TV.com is not an accepted source on Wikipedia, and it has not been for a long time.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, these are the correct numbers. See the CW watching page ! Smallville Charade Preview : Season 9, Ep 19, Original Air Date : Apr 23 2010. So please change ! http://www.cwtv.com/cw-video/smallville —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiny50 (talk • contribs) 11:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

http://www.cwtv.com/shows/smallville/episodes/ - Count them for yourself. They are not listing Absolute Justice as two episodes, and supposedly the DVD boxset is stating "21 episodes" and not "22 episodes" - with AJ still being listed as 1 single episode. We'll wait till the DVD comes out and see how they start numbering the next season. If season 10 episode 4 is stated to be episode 200, then we'll have to adjust. If it's episode 5, then it means they adjusted their count.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

http://www.cwtv.com/cw-video/smallville You can read : Checkmate ep 17 & Charade ep 19. Ask the CW, you will see. 1 hour TV-Show = 1 ep. --Shiny50 (talk) 14:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

1 hour does not always equal 1 episode. The CW has not sent out anything saying "Absolute Justice" is officially considered episodes 11 and 12. They only list it as one episode, and according to TV By the Numbers, the DVD boxset only lists it as one episode. So, we'll just have to wait till they either say something, or we can read the Box Set Booklet that will say the episode(s) it is considered.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:05, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Absolute Justice has 2 names, one for each hour ! Episode 11 : Absolute Justice : Society (1/2) / Episode 12 : Absolute Justice : Legends (2/2). A lot of sites have the correct numbering. Why CW numbered Checkmate 17, Upgrade 18, Charade 19 ?? You will see, Absolute Justice will be counted as 2 Episodes. Check the French and Italian TV-Guide the next few weeks. And just ask the CW by their feedback page ! --Shiny50 (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't have two names. "AJ" was originally two separate episodes ("Society" and "Legends"), before they decided to combine it into a single episode ("Absolute Justice"). "Society" and "Legends" were never going to be combined when they were first written. Hell, Geoff Johns was only supposed to write one episode. The producers decided to break his script up into two separate episodes, and then it was the CW that decided to merge them into a single cohesive episode and market it as "Absolute Justice". Most of the episodes after "AJ" had already been filmed and numbered, it's too late to change anything now. The key is going to be how they number them on the box set, and how they start off the numbering for next year. If episode 4 of season ten is also the 200th episode, then it means they have to consider "AJ" as two episodes filling a single 2 hour time slot. If they consider episode 5 the official "200th" episode, then it means they adjusted their count because they combined "Society" and "Legends". 23:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

http://blog.cwtv.com/2010/04/ --Shiny50 (talk) 12:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Just to show you why that proves nothing. See this - where "Disciple" is listed as episode 11. And then look at this - Where "Disciple" (with a description of "Absolute Justice") is listed again as episode 12. If you backtrack, you can see that their numbers got screwed up somewhere between "Echo" (which is correctly listed as episode 4, and "Kandor" which is incorrectly listed as episode 8. Since "Absolute Justice" is only listed as one episode (though the incorrect title), it would be assumed that had they not screwed up their numbering at the start of the season then they would be listing "Charade" as episode "18".  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

You are stubborn :) It is just a matter of time before you change it. They do not write Charade 919, Upgrade 918, Checkmate 917, Escape 916, Persuasion 914 by mistake. The mistake is just for Warrior 912 (That's why all other sites have the wrong numbering). The 10.04 will be the 200th episode, for sure. I will be back with the French & Italian TV Guide, when Absolute Justice is aired. ;) --Shiny50 (talk) 15:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

http://www.steeltv.it/site/ste_scheda_serie.php?codice=3023735&stagione=9&episodio=11&data=2010-05-24&orario=21:50:00 Official Italian Guide. --Shiny50 (talk) 23:05, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Not the studio, or someone officially connected to the show. We're just going to wait until the DVD boxset is released. Then we'll know for sure, because the boxset will either say "containing all 22 episodes" or "all 21 episodes". And before you say anything, you cannot just go around and see where you can find it listed as something else just to show that it should be listed that way. There are just as many things listing it as one episode as there are listing it as two.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:39, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Smallville writer-producer Al Septien has confirmed on Twitter that the 200th episode of the series will be the fourth episode of Season Ten, considering the fact that "Absolute Justice" is indeed counted as two episodes to the final tally. It is likely that Episode #200 will be airing in October. haha, you can change now !!! --Shiny50 (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

When we actually have a source to verify it. Kryptonsite is not a source we can use, and you didn't bother to find this Twitter message for us to verify it.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

You can make a google search no ??? It's not hard to find Al Septien twitter profil!! http://twitter.com/alseptien/status/16174764802 http://twitter.com/kryptonsite/status/16163852117 http://twitter.com/alseptien/status/16174728983 --Shiny50 (talk) 02:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank :)--Shiny50 (talk) 10:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

TV Ratings:

The ratings for Matello have not been finalized and probably will not be until tomorrow. The east coast did not see the episode until today.ChaosMaster16 (talk) 02:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

I'm aware. I don't expect a huge increase, but then again we have seen an episode jump several hundred thousand viewers because of those postponements.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Pictures

Hey, I was wondering if there was a different image we could use for the main picture for this season? I'm really disappointed with this season poster since it's recycling the pics from season 8, I realise that my personal dislike for it doesn't count as a valid reason so though I would start a discussion and if others agree we could change it. I'm also not sure what would be best to change it to - maybe an episode image of Clark in his black coat and Superman symbol top? Or maybe a fanmade poster but I don't know the rules on using thse. Sorry for my lack of helpfulness but wondered what everyone else thought? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.4.131 (talk) 23:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I dislike it also. But I doubt we can use a picture to replace a poster we don't like... I wish The CW was not so stubborn and advertised shows correctly.ChaosMaster16 (talk) 23:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

No other image (till the DVD boxset next year) will probably be released that is used to represent the whole season. So, we're stuck with it for now.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

DVR numbers

I think we should keep track of all the DVR number reports here, and if we get to the end of the season and we have a DVR report for every episode then we adjust the numbers accordingly. I say this because, if we only get a handful of DVR reports, then the numbers on the table will be misrepresented, with some being with DVR and others sans the DVR spread. It's easier to just keep track of them til the end and adjust them where needed.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

• "Savior" DVR numbers.
• "Metallo" DVR numbers.

• • What is wrong with adding a table to the reception area for the DVR numbers? Personally, I like it better because it isnt as messy. Should we have a vote/agreement?ChaosMaster16 (talk) 22:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

• • • Because all the other numbers are on the episode table. It makes no sense to separate them, and it makes little sense to create a whole new table just to display episode ratings when we can easily put them on the table that exists.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

• • • • The way you are adding it is not the way to do it. By adding it straight in the column you lose the overview, especially because you have to go and see what it actually is by reading the note. I suggest you add a new section with a ratings-table and add them in a separate column. Personally, I think it is extremely confusing.ChaosMaster16 (talk) 23:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

• • • • • Then you add the note at the top so it's seen right away. It makes little sense to have two separate episode tables. It's a redundancy, that should be avoided on all pages with episode lists. You don't lose any "overview" with both numbers together.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

• • • • • • Then lets get rid of the ratings in the episode table and put something similar to this:

U.S. Nielsen ratings

Order	Episode	Original Airdate	DVR Viewers
1	"Savior"	September 25, 2009	3.39
2	"Metallo"	September 25, 2009	3.03
3	"Rabid"	September 25, 2009	3.02
4	"Echo"	September 25, 2009	—

ChaosMaster16 (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

Again, it's redundant to have two episode tables. Why have two tables when they both fit in one. The note at the top is clear, and anyone that reads it will understand what the first number represents and what the second number represents. Having a whole separate table to list out 22 episodes, again, is needless. I don't know why people fixate on having tables in general, let alone one that's redundant to another that's already present. It's needless code. It all fits nice and neat on one table.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:11, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

You're creating more confusion with the table. The average reader doesn't know what "Rating", "Sharing", and "Rating/Share" even means. I've looked at them 1000 times, and it's still confusing. It's fluff information that means nothing compared to the overall viewership of the show. Who cares that it has 1.0 rating. The important info is how many people watched it.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

(ec)

Just 2¢ but... I can see at least one good reason for splitting of the hard data - usability.

Yes, the ratings can be tacked into the standing table. But that makes easy reference and comparison very hard. With the 6-8 lines of plot summary, you only have about 1/4th of the season on the screen to compare numbers. And as you scroll down you lose the headers.

- J Greb (talk) 00:43, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

But, unless you have an upright screen (I don't think they make those), or very high resolution set (making the text really tiny), you aren't going to be able to fit 22 episodes on your screen in a single table anyway. Since we have a prose section that we're identifying when an episode becomes the highest rated of the season, it doesn't seem necessary to need a whole table to have "easier comparison" when we're doing it in prose form to the important episodes already.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, what I was looking at as the fact that, on average, you can only see 4 or 5 episode lines at a time. So orientation and resolution are a little irrelevant.

Tables, as far as I can see, serve one of two purposes for presenting episode lists:

1. A capsule presentation of the episode name, prediction number, director, original air date, and synopsis. That is currently what the table in the article is doing and the rows are independent - what is in ep 22's line doesn't really have an impact on ep 1's.
2. Hard data that is compared across episodes. Generally this would be things like run time, ratings, DRV demand, etc. Data like that is easier to use if the entire table is visible, and 233 lines comfortable fits in most resolutions.

Now, if there are multiple sets of ratings/ratings methods that can be sourced, then a table of just that information can be useful. Even if a legend is needed to bring a lay-reader up to speed.

- J Greb (talk) 02:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Anything other than the overall viewership is irrelevant. "Shares" and "Ratings" are virtually meaningless fluff. Most people, let alone the average reader, don't understand or even care about that the "share" was. The only relevant info is how many people watched the show. A 2 column table would be the only useful thing, and we can put those numbers in the other table. I mean, look at it: "Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent." - That's a lot of technobabble to force someone to swallow, and it's rather irrelevant. It's minutia. "Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)" - Again, that's a lot of technobabble. Specific program, specific station, specific area, at a specific time. How specific do you think they got? Without context it's rather meaningless. What area were they pulling from? What was the exact time?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:49, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is some DVR info... but idk what episode it is for.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/26/the-cw-again-leads-all-networks-in-percent-increases-from-live7-dvr-playback/31592

ChaosMaster16 (talk) 19:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

It's for "Rabid", because it was week ending October 10, but it claims that the "Rabid" numbers were 1.90, and not 2.30. Now, I've seen numbers fluctuate before, but never that much unless the episode didn't air everywhere.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm starting to see a trend here. Typically, we post the overnight figures when they are released, then we adjust based on the DVR figures that are released. What I've noticed is that the original overnight figures are actually the figures for Live + SD (same day), while the actual "Live" are typically significantly lower (e.g., "Echo" overnight is 2.59 originally, but the true Live number is 2.17). Given that it appears that "overnight"--as well as the number The CW tends to publish--is really the "Live + SD" (which means the people who watched it live plus the people that watched it by 3 am that night), does anyone think we should go back through our DVR sources (since that is where we get the official Live+SD number) and change it to those L+SD figures?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Ehh..... Good point, BUT all the shows for the overnight ratings, (looking at FlashFoward and Survivor 19 in particular) include Live + SD, not just live. I say since they give us the Live + SD in overnight already (an estimate) look at the chart and adjust it to that, and then add the DVR viewing.... That could also explain why the live viewing for some of the airings have been extremely low, (like 1.9 area!)ChaosMaster16 (talk) 03:20, 10 November 2009 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

Well, we're going with that one initially. I just wanted to make sure that we keep the same statistics throughout. Hell, even the overnight with the "Live+SD" is still an estimate, because that number fluctuates by the time we get the DVR figures.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:29, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I too just noticed the inconsistencies. It seems that most of the sources that only give the original rating is live+same day, but I've seen at least one source for both ratings give live vs. live+7. Ophois (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

http://twitter.com/MattMtvguy http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6127609

1. 1 Savior ~ *2.57mil. & Live+7= 3.39mil.

1. 2 Metallo ~ (P)*2.24mil. & Live+7= 3.03mil.

1. 3 Rabid ~ *2.28mil. & Live+7= 3.02mil.

1. 4 Echo ~ *2.59mil. & Live+7= 3.25mil.

1. 5 Roulette ~ *2.47mil. & Live+7= 3.14mil.

1. 6 Crossfire ~ (P)*2.42mil. & Live+7= 3.24mil.

1. 7 Kandor ~ *2.63mil.

1. 8 Idol ~ *2.68mil. & Live+7= 3.47mil.

1. 9 Pandora ~ (P)*2.42mil. & Live+7= 3.20mil.

1. 10 Disciple ~ *2.49mil. & Live+7= 3.07mil.

1. 11 & #12 Absolute Justice ~ *2.77mil. & Live+7= 3.48mil.

1. 13 Warrior ~ *2.48mil. & Live+7= 3.25mil.

1. 14 Persuasion ~ *2.44mil. & Live+7= 3.11mil.

1. 15 Conspiracy ~ *2.54 mil

Here are DVR and final ratings, but there are two sources, should we include them?ChaosMaster16 (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

If it comes from Matt Mitovich, it's fine, because he works for a reliable news source.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:26, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it does: Should we just put his twitter account as a reference? Going through months worth of posts doesn't seem worth it.ChaosMaster16 (talk) 14:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

We'd have to cite the specific tweet. Otherwise, within two months...a year, we'll never be able to locate that feeds. So, the citations need to be from the direct tweets.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 15:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Kandor

"Kandor" is airing November 6, and there is a confirmed plot. 68.37.66.81 (talk) 17:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

We need a reliable source that we can point out. We cannot point to Kryptonsite, which is the only place reporting the plot right now.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:08, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a valid source. 68.37.66.81 (talk) 22:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

delay

it seems that there will be no more episodes till january 20th 2010 i dont have any proof but if any body could inform me weather this is true or not or just update the page with such information i think it would be productive to this page--99.234.115.165 (talk) 06:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

DVR Numbers (2)

I personally think that unless we have all of the episode's DVR ratings, that it is unnecessary to include them in the table. If we take them out of the table then why not move the episode number to the right for consistancy with previous seasons?ChaosMaster16 (talk) 23:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

First, if you remove them then you might as well not put them anywhere because they'd be missing in a separate table as well. Missing in one table doesn't get changed if you separate the table. I think we should just wait and see where we are with the numbers. If it looks like we're just two out, then maybe we can do some Google Guruing too see if we can find them ones we're missing. If we're missing a lot, then we'll pull them out completely. As for the episode numbers on the right, I think all the seasons should be changed to have them on the left. For one, the LOE page has them on the left. Two, it makes better sense if you are numbering a list to put the numbers on the left. If I'm making a list I say:
1. Cereal
2. Bread
3. Drinks
I don't say:
Cereal 1.
Bread 2.
That doesn't really look right. I think we should change the other season pages.

P.S. I'm looking for "Absolute Justice" reviews. I've found these so far.

io9

TV Squad

MTV

Comic Book Movie

If we can get a good number of decent (i.e. the source is respectable) then we could probably separate this episode from the page. We have a lot of good production stuff (I found a couple more articles on the episode itself), but I think we'll need something better than io9 and TV Squad.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Yea, if we move the numbers on other pages, it would work. And I have been google guruing, Media Week searching, and scanning TVbythenumbers, but nothing with what we are missing. I don't think the DVR numbers really matter much anyway, I have seen many shows, even some on The CW that have at least 1 million more DVR viewers, but the show is still in talks to get cancelled. Removing them from here probably won't hurt much. And I agree on the other table, it just looks messy. Removing them completely from the whole page would probably work better. We could say in the recepton section if the numbers improved, exc. if it mattered or was an important episode, if there was a huge increase, or if there was a press release from The CW regarding the DVR numbers.

And I'll start searching for more on Absolute Justice too. How would we do it though? Just link to the episode in the episode list? I think we could remove detailed information about the episode, but a review and some production information should stay, just to encompass the whole season.

Reviews could be from anywhere, right? Not just reliable sources?

[1] - review

[2] - review

[3] - review

From Digg.com, maybe not a good idea to include it, but just a review nonetheless.

[4]

One more: [5] ChaosMaster16 (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

Also, I found this: [6]

They list the air dates and titles, but they also say the 15th episode is Conspiracy. This looks correct and I don't see why we can't trust this source. I will look it up on Wikipedia to see if its reliable or not, but I just wanted to bring that to your attention.ChaosMaster16 (talk) 00:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

SpoilerTV gets there stuff the same way IMDb and Wikipedia do...from users. It's an unreliable source. Most of what they have comes from people giving them stuff from Kryptonsite, which we cannot use. As for the reviews, not "any" review will do. Personal blogs, like "A Comic Book Blog" won't cut it. These people have no professional credibility. You can stretch places like Comic Book Movie, maybe TV Squad, but when they start getting into "critics" who are just random bloggers submitting their opinion on a fansite, then we cannot use them. We'd have a hard time justifying why their opinion actually matters, given that anyone can publish anything they want.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Mania and IGN. We're getting there...slowly but surely.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:53, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

J.R. Bourne

The Canadian actor had a prominent part in episode 14 and said character's name is the first thing mentioned in the episodes blurb. I thought it may be prudent to note this,(perhaps just putting (J.R. Bourne) after the name of his part in the show) as he is somewhat well-known, especially by sci-fi fans.98.215.128.112 (talk) 00:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Please provide a source other than yourself (i.e. citeable source), and it'll be added. DonQuixote (talk) 06:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I just read it in the credits of the actual show in addition to recognizing the actor. I didn't read it anywhere else. My apologies, I was unaware that the show itself was not acceptable for use as a source. Also, I personally don't know what qualifies as a source. The info is here[7] on his IMDB page among numerous other places. If you want to include the info, I'm sure you can find a source better than I can. If you want to exclude the info, so be it.98.215.128.112 (talk) 04:50, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Oops, actually, it's my error. Don't know what I was smoking, but my "reading comprehension" was way off the mark. DonQuixote (talk) 13:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

New Format

Great Job with the new episode tables on the Smallville Pages Guys!!ChaosMaster16 (talk) 02:53, 29 March 2010 (UTC)ChaosMaster16

Absolute Justice

This reference, which quotes the DVD box, states that there are 21 episodes in season 9. Although Al Septien states "yeah, even though AJ was technically 1 ep, it's considered 2 : )", I think that the official DVD overrules the flimsy wording of "technically" and "considered". The only possibility to have a 21 episode season is that "Absolute Justice" is only one episode. Bringing it up here before changing it back. Thoughts? _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 09:32, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that and was discussing it with Chaos. THis is really starting to piss me off. Septien is a "producer", but not an executive and thus doesn't actually have a say in how they count it. Unfortunately, if they don't come out and correct it and say "episode 200 will be episode 5 of season 10", then we're going to have the grand story for what a 200th episode should be...just for episode 199. Then the "technical" ep 200 will probably suck.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

What's currently on the page is more wrong than either one, right now it says that the episode counts as two episodes overall but only one in the season, which is quite frankly impossible. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 14:14, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Only one set of numbers was changed back.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Al Septien runs the writers' room for the show. He has to account for all of the production numbers that appear on the scripts, which correspond with the official production records. He's more than just a "producer". Plus, the showrunners Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson have confirmed Ep. 200 is the 4th episode of Season 10, which takes into account the production considering 'Absolute Justice' two episodes while the CW and Warner Bros. consider it one episode. Playhouse76 (talk) 20:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the debate about the episode count number should be included as an heading within the main article of Season 9. This is a relevant point, especially when talking about 'Smallville' breaking records based on years on the air and total episode count. It seems like such a silly discussion but it does speak a lot to the way a production handles things versus the way a network and/or studio handles things. Playhouse76 (talk) 20:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Except there isn't a "debate". The writers and producers have said that the fourth episode of season ten will be the 200th. For that to happen, that means that they consider "AJ" two episodes. Unfortunately, they're the only ones that do as the studio packaged it as a single episode and the DVD box set clearly says "21 episodes" and not "22 episodes". The studio has not made any comment about the numbering, and even if they did they didn't number the DVDs that way. We cannot renumber things simply because the writers consider it to be two episodes. In technicality, it is, but as far as broadcasted episodes go it was a single broadcast. That's why a special note will be placed on the season ten page for "Homecoming". As far as this page goes, it's an accurate reflection of what the studio is listing.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Just do what has been done with Star Trek Franchises Pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_(season_1)#Episodes just put a <h r/> mark and show it as one long episode trimed into 2. Its also been done to the pilot episodes of Knight Rider, The A-Team, Airwolf, Quantum Leap, Miami Vice, Magnum PI and Stargate SG1.82.36.42.211 (talk) 04:42, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't a long episode trimmed into two, it was 2 separately filmed episodes that were converged into 1 episode. That is why there are 2 episode numbers, but one section. It is also why the episode count seems off, because the season itself counts them as one, while the overall series counted them as two when giving a full series number.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 12:03, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Article Reassessment

Do we seriously think this is start class? I think its time for a reassessment on this page also. ChaosMaster_Chat 02:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Absolute Justice Is 2 Episodes

I completely disagree with counting Absolute Justice as being just 1 episode, the finale was a 2 hour episode but is considered two episodes, why is this not the case with Absolute Justice? It throws the numbering off completely, even the Producers says it's 2 episodes. It needs to changed to account for 2 episodes, not 1. Babelcolour5 (talk) 13:08, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Different issues at stake. The finale was 2 episodes that were filmed and then just aired together. "Absolute Justice", at the time, started as 2 separate episodes and then was merged to be a single episode. During the season itself, it was classified as 1 episode, in the season box set it is classified as 1 episode. The complete set that was released a couple years later has it as 2 episodes, but that was more to bump the episode count up to 218 officially for records purposes. During this actual season, it was identified by producers as 1 episode, and the boxset has it as 1 episode.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:25, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

It even says in the article "In an effort to clear up confusion, the Smallville writers announced on their Twitter page that they still consider the two-hour episode to be two separately produced episodes". So I'm not sure how you can say the producers identified it as 1 episode. The box sets also have the finale as 1 episode but that's still 2 episodes here, also a lot of other shows have 2 episodes as one in there box set, but they're still listed as two separate episodes on their respective pages. I'm not sure how it's different from "merging 2 episodes together" and "airing 2 episodes together", there essentially the same thing. Babelcolour5 (talk) 15:45, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The writers considered it 2 separate episodes, but the writers do not dictate how that actually plays out. The EPs are the ones that made the decision to merge it into 1 single episode. It wasn't even originally called "Absolute Justice", it was originally "Society" and "Legends", that was the merged name given to the single entity that it became and how it was ultimately labeled in the season 9 boxset.

When I say the boxset has it as one episode, I mean that it even counts the episodes for the season as having 21 episodes, and not 22. The writers can count it however they like, but our count is based on Warner Bros./CW count at the time of release. That's why we have a note for it. I'm not talking about simply putting them together in the boxset for viewing purposes, but the actual count is episode 11 in the season 9 set, not episode 11 and 12. The series finale was still listed as "Part 1 and Part 2" for everything, including the set which identifies it as 21 AND 22, just aired together back to back. Even in the airing it had a clear separation point. Not true for "AJ", as it was aired as if it was 1 episode that was 90 minutes long.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:50, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

""Savior" (Smallville episode)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect "Savior" (Smallville episode). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Gonnym (talk) 15:06, 26 October 2019 (UTC)