Talk:Terumah (offering)

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Propose rename to Terumah

In the absence of objection, will rename to "Terumah". I believe Artscroll's editorial decision in their English translations of the Hebrew Bible and Talmud not to translate technical Hebrew terms for sacrifices and the like is sound. Nobody uses and few understand the the traditional King James English translations of these terms. There is no contemporary constituency for them. But there is a contemporary constitutuency for the Hebrew terms. So if one is going to have to learn a bunch of essentially foreign terminology one may as well just transliterate the Hebrew terms directly. Moreover, I suspect that popularization of Talmud study in English through translations like the Schottenstein have made these terms more common in English use. Any objections? --Shirahadasha 22:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This "Heave Offering" article groups together a set of practices which for the most part are still done in contemporary Orthodox Judaism. However, these practices have been modified following the Temple's destruction so that the heave element is no longer required or no longer performed at all. Because of this situation, there are redirects to this page, such as Terumah, which are simply inappropriate redirects. Terumah describes a set of contemporary practices in Orthodox Judaism which no longer involve heaving. Wikipedia needs text on these contemporary practices as they are performed in current Orthodox Judaism as well as information on the history of how its law and practice moved from its Biblical roots to its contemporary setting. A redirect of a contemporary practice to an article whose practice is based on an element of the practice that is no longer performed is inappropriate for a contemporary encyclopedia. One might as well redirect [[Mill to Waterwheel. Best, --Shirahadasha 23:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, the original authors of this article, as well as the person who said that the "Bibllical" terumot necessarily involved "heaving", do not know the first thing about either this topic or the Hebrew language. To suggest that there was a "heave element" to most of the gifts designated as "terumah" demonstrates a tremendous ignorance of the primary sources and authoritative scholarship. It is absolutely amazing that the editors for Jewish topics know little to nothing about the subjects for which they are making revisions. The Jewish Encyclopedia is hardly an authoritative text respected by contemporary scholarship. Rather, it is heavily cited on Wikipedia simply because it is over a century old and within the public domain.

Moreover, I completely fail to understand how the original term, Terumah, should be deemed an inappropriate heading for the topic in favor of an inaccurate mistranslation. How is the mistranslation heave-offering more Biblical than terumah, which is the term that the Bible actually uses?

In addition to the concerns stated by the previous poster, I think the Jewish Encyclopedia's critical view is misleading and inaccurate in saying that there is no distinction made between the Kohenim (priests) and Leviim. I don't think Devarim implies that any Levi can become a Kohen. Big Mac (talk) 17:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have requested a formal name change to "Trumah" (i avoided requesting Terumah as the "nekuda" on the "Tav" is a "shva" and not a segol)--Marecheth Ho'eElohuth (talk) 18:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Propose restore to English title

This should really go back to heave offering. en.Wikipedia is what it says, English Wikipedia. WP:RS sources, not least the JPS version, don't use a specific Hebrew term for "heave offering", why should Wikipedia? Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English):

The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources

In ictu oculi (talk) 02:56, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:17, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Terumah → Heave offering – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:44, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Someone sent me a message about wanting this move. I better get it discussed properly. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:39, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - restore from the move to Hebrew back to English per WP:EN. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:07, 8 September 2011 (UTC)*[reply]
Object The term "Heave" is completely innnacurate. Heave in today's englist connotes a strong type of movement whereas the movement of the Terumah was done gently and gradualy (See Rashi to Parshath Ki-Thavo)--Marecheth Ho'eElohuth (talk) 19:34, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- See vote below for a reply. Andrewa (talk) 02:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - the common English name of this kind of offering is "heave offering", and the "heave" part does not denote any physical movement at all, but the setting apart for a higher purpose. Huon (talk) 11:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment / suggestion: I corrected some English spelling (e.g. "occurence" to "occurrence"). Now back to your debate, people.FeatherPluma (talk) 23:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The only objection above seems to be that the name heave offering which is in common English usage should be changed. Wikipedia follows such changes rather than leads; We do not promote changes to the English language however logical, and meantime we use the existing English name. Andrewa (talk) 02:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"... and has no connection to the more commonly used meaning of the term heaving".

Does anyone think this particular line is needed? Does anyone associate the term 'heave offering' with heaving / vomiting and need to need to be told that there is no connection? BobKilcoyne (talk) 05:40, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's unnecessary and have removed it. We explain the etymology in detail, there's no need to point out what it isn't related to. Huon (talk) 11:46, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Name, once again

I think the article should be renamed to Terumah. Not only is terumah the standard name used nowadays among English-speaking religious Jews ([1] [2]), but it is also the name in contemporary academic/scholarly sources ([3] [4]). The term "heave offering" is essentially nonexistent these days in any circles (the Jewish Encylopedia is over 100 years old and its language is antiquated); most educated Jews nowadays, hearing this term, wouldn't even know what it referred to. Can we have another vote on this? Ar2332 (talk) 19:04, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem with changing this article's name, but there should be a redirect under the name "Heave-offering", directing inquirers (especially non-Jews who still use the old English term) to this article.Davidbena (talk) 19:18, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]