Talk:The Muppet Christmas Carol

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.

Disney Low‑importance

	Disney portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disney, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of The Walt Disney Company and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DisneyWikipedia:WikiProject DisneyTemplate:WikiProject DisneyDisney articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Holidays: Christmas Start‑class Low‑importance

	Holidays portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of holidays on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays articles
Start	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Christmas task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Christianity: Christmas Start‑class Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Start	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Christmas task force (assessed as Low-importance).

"When Love Is Gone"

Is this really cut from R2 DVDs of the film? If so, why? My (British) VHS copy certainly *does* contain it. 86.136.253.163 03:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is cut. The DVD is following the original theatrical version. As stated in the article, the producers felt it slowed the film down. And quite frankly, they're right. I think the film's much better without it! Pawnkingthree 15:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quite frankly, you're wrong - the film is much better *with* it. Our personal opinions aside...I watched the 10th anniversary edition last night waiting for this song in particular, only to be disappointed. It wasn't even included in the menu options! The very least they could have done was make the scene available. --203.55.211.33 (talk) 00:36, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting information/poor wording?

Under Distribution:

The song "When Love Is Gone" was cut from the DVD release, despite having featured on the VHS release.

Under Soundtrack:

"When Love is Gone" was cut out of the original 1992 theatrical release as producers thought it would slow the film down a bit, but put it back in for the video release and TV airings. This song was once again cut from the 10th Anniversary Edition of the film released on DVD (widescreen only, the fullscreen version has the song).

The use of the word "cut" in these cases is misleading. "When Love Is Gone" was not in the theatrical cut of the film. It's a "deleted scene" that was inserted into the VHS version as an extended cut of the film. I don't believe there is any evidence of this scene existing in any widescreen edition of the film. The situation is similar to the television version of Battle for the Planet of the Apes.

--Jason Penney (talk) 01:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong, it's in the widescreen Laserdisc version. 84.58.223.223 (talk) 00:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So what? It wasn't in the original theatrical release. Therefor is was not "cut." It was added later to the television broadcast, and home video. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.119.190 (talk) 16:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be disagreement about whether or not the scene featuring the song "When Love Is Gone" was in the film's original theatrical version or not. There is conflicting information on the internet about it, mainly due to a review on ultimatedisney.com in which the reviewer claims it was not, but was merely added to the DVD as an extra. Please be assured, the song was in the original theatrical version, as well as the original VHS and laserdisc versions. It was excised from the initial (2002) DVD release completely, which resulted in a fan outcry (see the countless posts on the subject at Amazon if you're curious, although these have been merged with the reviews for the 2005 DVD release). The scene was therefore added to the 2005 "Kermit's 50th Anniversary" DVD, but only on the fullscreen version, not the widescreen (both are on the DVD). This full-screen cut is called "Extended Edition," further confusing the issue. It would seem that those in charge of the film's DVD release do not want to recognize the scene as belonging to the original film. However, this does not alter the fact that it was, in fact, in the theatrical version, as well as the VHS and laserdisc editions. It only became controversial when it arrived on DVD in 2002, ten years after the film's release.Udpert (talk) <spanstyle="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding undated comment added 07:51, 5 February 2011 (UTC).[reply]

You're completely wrong and do not even cite a source for your assertion. The song was never part of the theatrical release.

While personal experience is not considered supportable evidence on Wikipedia, let me make some points about this odd controversy. First of all, I saw the film many times in its original theatrical run and can attest that "When Love is Gone" was always in it. In fact, I appreciated the film so much that on one occasion I brought a pocket cassette recorder with me and recorded the entire soundtrack as it played in the theater (I was young, and didn't want to wait for the video release to hear it again). I have that cassette to this day, and it has the entire When Love Is Gone scene, right where it belongs. This was in Salem, Oregon, and I don't think some random multiplex in Salem was showing a special edition of the film back in '92.

When the VHS and Laserdiscs came out, there was the scene as always. Nothing about those two first video releases said anything about them being special home-video cuts, because they weren't. The song was part of the original theatrical cut. I found it jarring to find it suddenly missing from the DVD release, as were so many others. Why? Because we who had actually seen the film in its original release knew that it had been there.

Now, what makes the controversy oddest of all is Brian Henson. When he was promoting his film The Happytime Murders, he actually implied in an interview that the song was not in the original theatrical cut, but that he preferred the VHS version which included it. Is he deluded? Can the director of a film actually not remember which version of it was originally released? Or is he promoting Disney's crazy retelling of movie history?

Most of the people I've discussed this with did not see the film in its original release. I'm sure that, of those who did, there are some who would take an opposing view to my own. But everyone I've met who saw the film on the big screen in '92 has maintained, as I do, that the song was present.

Because this is the talk page, I can put forth these opinions. I have no grounds on which to edit the actual subject page. Maybe someone will eventually come up with an original reel of the film and prove the point once and for all.--Udpert (talk) 09:17, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update: In late 2022, Disney hosted a one-time theatrical showing of the film for its 30th anniversary, with an original film reel from its archives. Lo and behold, the song was in it. Disney now includes this edition on its Disney+ streaming service under the film's Extras tab, where it is now (properly) called "Full Version." Udpert (talk) 03:45, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Muppet christmas carol.jpg

Image:Muppet christmas carol.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Best

Is this widely considered to be the best Muppet Movie? AJUK ^Talk!! 00:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Voice of Christmas Future

Who does the voice for the ghost of Christmas Future? --TheTruthiness (talk) 08:06, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come does not speak in this film, so no-one does the voice for it. 195.99.0.254 (talk) 15:44, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not all that is Disney is literature! At least, in the educated world

"Over the years, reception of the film has become much more positive, with many reviewers claiming it as not only one of the best Muppet films, but also as one of the best adaptations of Charles Dickens's original story and a quintessential Christmas movie."

Regardless of whether there are citations or not (currently not), that an encyclopaedia should even consider a Muppet musical to be "one of the best adaptations of Charles Dickens's original story" is laughable.

What next? Mickey Mouse as one of the best Hamlets? Any pretence to being a reputable encyclopaedia is called into doubt if it can not discriminate between great literature and Hollywood / Disney style pap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.102.230 (talk) 07:19, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly don't agree with your attitude, or with your contention that even with citations that sentence would be improper for a Wikipedia article. However, I do agree that the sentence without citations is probably untrue. (And from a Wikipedia standpoint, not WP:Verifiable and quite WP:Weasel-y.) I've removed it from the article. (As a sidenote - this article isn't protected. Next time put away the soapbox, be bold, and make the change yourself.) --ElHef (Meep?) 16:52, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Mark Kermode ranks it in his top eight Christmas films, and includes several clips from it in his round-up of Christmas films generally, alongside more conventional adaptations. That's good enough for me. Outski1966 (talk) 13:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First Muppet film centering on human characters

Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the point of the last big paragraph under Reception, but weren't several of the characters (including the villain) of The Muppet Movie (1979) human beings? Since I'm not sure if I'm crazy, I won't make a change… 217.86.209.231 (talk) 08:28, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion in Article

"The movie plays with an obvious, jarring edit when the film is played with the song missing." This is an obvious opinion, and shouldn't be in the article. I don't think the film is "jarring" at all without the addition of the song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.119.190 (talk) 16:27, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Micklewhite's Candie Shoppe

I added the following at the end of the Production section: “In the street scenes, one shop is titled "Micklewhite's Candie Shoppe", Micklewhite being Michael Caine's birth surname.” NatureBoyMD undid this on the basis it is trivia WP:NOTTRIVIA. The film is0as humorous take on the Dickens story, and my view is that the shop’s name is witty and worth pointing out to those who might have missed it. What do others think? ~~ Masato.harada (talk)

It's trivia unless you have independent reliable sources that discuss this aspect of the film in depth(not just mentioning it). 331dot (talk) 09:20, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Costumes.

I have seen high praise for the costumes in this film, right down to the dress of the tiny rodents. According to a costume historian whose video I saw, they are all period accurate and hand made. No corners were cut. The gentle-puppets wore 4 piece suits, not just a jacket with a little shirt collar attached. The Crachets wore outdated designs to underscore their low income. Gonzo wore tiny side-lacing boots. It is phenomenal! I see nothing about the costuming in this article. Can someone with film knowledge and resources please add information of this topic. Thank you for your help, Wordreader (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(if you are interested in what Ms Cox has to say as a taste of what to look for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_mL1X4UMI - Her YT channel does not list her education; I have read that she has, maybe a masters degree in costume history or something similar and worked in the costume department at Colonial Williamsburg for a few years.) Wordreader (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Two Actors In The Nephew Fred Christmas Party Scene

When the ghost of christmas present shows Scrooge his nephew Fred's christmas party, the guest include Fred's wife, Clara, several muppets, and a human man and a human woman. I was looking at the imdb for their names, but I couldn't find them. Does anyone know what the names of those two actors are? Here's a link to that scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAOKOAtti1A. MrCboY1997 (talk) 18:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]