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Archive 1

Degree

So does she have a degree in English, SPS, or both?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.125.127 (talk) 00:21, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Work

When not making movies she help out at her kids school in Nairn by cleaning the School. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.132.99.117 (talk • contribs) 11:30, 10 April 2007

Jessica Swinton

What is her relation to Jessica Swinton, who played her daughter in Orlando? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0842764/

Victor b04 (talk) 01:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Clarification on nationality

It's difficult to classify Tilda Swinton as specifically English or Scottish. Therefore, British is the best term, as it covers all of the above and more. 194.73.217.244 (talk) 13:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You're right. I once read an article about Tilda and she refers to herself as Scottish, not English. Zenitram82 21:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Difficult to say, isn't it? Father is a Scot but mother is Australian and Matilda was born in London. So I'd say she's struggling to be half-Scottish if we used the government's yardstick of "where were you born". David Lauder (talk) 12:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Or we could just go with the fact that she's undisputably British and leave it at that? 79.75.36.35 (talk) 02:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I changed it to British--Mongreilf (talk) 09:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Significance of Née

When Swinton's mother is identified in the first section as "Jessica Balfour (née Killen)", does this mean that Balfour is her middle name, or her married name by some previous husband? -Agur bar Jacé (talk) 15:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC) "No. It means "formerly", as in maiden name. Wildhartlivie (talk) 16:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Spouse

She has clarified in a recent article in the Daily Mail that she is not, and never has been married, so she has no spouse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.56.189 (talk) 22:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Someone wrote that her relationship with John Byrne was now platonic, but there's nothing in the referenced article or anywhere else I've seen that supports that. For all we know she's involved romantically and sexually with both Byrne and Kopp.

There isn't any relationship with John Byrne, apart from them raising their children together. I read the sourced article and she very clearly says she hasn't been in a relationship with Byrne for 5 years, which was before she met Kopp. I removed the part about her maintaining a relationship with Byrne as it is refuted by the source material.76.105.7.183 (talk) 04:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

John Byrne has denied being involved with Swinton and Kopp, and has apparently been dating someone for three years. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article6804990.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.137.181.27 (talk) 16:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

"Arthouse" vs. "Mainstream" films

I have a problem with this division of her work because, as it stands now, the "arthouse" section refers to her early work, while all of her recent films have been stuck into "mainstream" whether or not they are. Nearly every film she makes is an independent one (Burn After Reading, Young Adam, Thumbsucker, Teknolust) and they fall, chronologically, into the larger productions of films like I Am Love and Michael Clayton. I think it would be better to stress that she is constantly working with new directors on all types of productions. It might make more sense to have an "early work" section rather than an "arthouse" section, as she did start out as one of Derek Jarman's players, none of whom expected "success" as it's usually defined in the world of cinema, then a section which includes all of her post-Jarman work. Or just have a longer Film Work section. Or something. Anyone else have ideas on this? I'll check back in a few days to see what people have to say, and may then tackle it. She's a unique actress whose career doesn't resemble anyone else's, so it seems worthwhile to work on this so that it presents her more accurately.--TEHodson 23:34, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Image

Her fashion sense and style and interest in androgyny would be worth noting


“People talk about androgyny in all sorts of dull ways,” says Swinton, noting that the recent rerelease of Orlando had her thinking again about its pliancy. “Cahun looked at the limitlessness of an androgynous gesture, which I’ve always been interested in.”

Read More http://www.wmagazine.com/fashion/2011/08/tilda-swinton-cover-story-fashion#ixzz1SDXkhGm4

RafikiSykes (talk) 22:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Since you've got a source for her comments, why not find a way to work them into the discussion of Orlando, rather than set up a whole new section?--TEHodson 00:20, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Another Cameo

Since some very minor roles have been ID'd as cameos here, is it worth mentioning her uncredited cameo as a centaur during the parade at the end of Prince Caspian? It's clearly her but not sure quite how to source this (or if it's really noteworthy). Anyone? Rwintle (talk) 00:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I added it (with source).Rwintle (talk) 20:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Sources

This article relies on citations to thepeerage.com, which has been discussed at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard WP:RSN and determined that it is not a reliable source, and should not be used as references in articles.[1][2] Self-published sources cannot be used in a BLP WP:BLPSPS The citations have been removed, but not the associated text, and tags inserted for the former footnotes. Better sources must be found for this text; text that is not supported by in-line citation to a reliable source may be removed.Fladrif (talk) 23:50, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Fashion Muse

She's a fashion muse? What is that? Wikipedia doesn't have a page defining the term. Is it a job? A hobby? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.234.19 (talk) 07:34, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Personal Life

There needs to be a section describing her socialist and anti-American politics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.236.192 (talk) 20:00, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok who deleted the stuff about her personal life? i think we shud put some tidbits of her life in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.95.102.232 (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Her personal beliefes should be addressed on personal life section, specially considering the communist anti-american advocacy X 'long line' family land ownership... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.138.195.238 (talk) 00:49, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

She speaks Italian fluently?

Hi, it seems she speaks italian well enough to act in an italian language film in the starring role. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1226236/ There is no mention of this in the page, don't know what to make of it. Seems unusual, I figured she was half italian or something, but seems not. Anyone know about this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Missannafjmorris (talk • contribs) 22:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

She is not fluent in Italian : http://screencrave.com/2010-06-18/interview-tilda-swinton-talks-i-am-love/ ChristopheT (talk) 06:43, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

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Merger proposal

I propose that List of awards and nominations received by Tilda Swinton be merged into Tilda Swinton. I think that the content in the "List of awards and nominations received by Tilda Swinton" article can easily be explained in the context of Tilda Swinton page. Ntb613 (talk) 18:34, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

  • The Tilda Swinton article is currently around 30kB and the awards article around 17.5kB. Combined together they would be around 47kB, which is perhaps a little larger than is recommended at WP:SIZE, so keeping them separate may be preferable. --Michig (talk) 18:43, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

early life in Berlin

She spend a few years in Berlin in the 80, starring in works by Schlingensief and afaicr Buttgereit. That should be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:45:5A14:E01:21E:8CFF:FE66:90DF (talk) 11:00, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

TV Work

There's no mention of her role in the UK series "Getting On' despite the fact that she is referenced on the 'Getting On' Wiki page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.59.196 (talk) 22:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

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Why isn't there any mention of androgyny?

If you ask most people to describe Tilda Swinton they'll include the word androgynous somewhere. Her androgynous fashion sense is a major part of her image and significance. I know Wikipedia needs verifiable sources, but I'm sure there are plenty of articles discussing her androgyny; even a cursory Google search shows lots. ❃Adelaide❃ (talk) 05:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

It's already discussed in the third paragraph of her Acting section (related to her work in Orlando). I think much more would be bordering on undue weight. Hoof Hearted (talk) 18:39, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

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RFC about gender identity

Over at Talk:List_of_people_with_non-binary_gender_identities#RFC_about_Tilda_Swinton there's a discussion about including Swinton with non-binary people. Feel free to join the discussion. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 13:44, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Project Trust

The newspaper article quoted doesn't say she volunteered for Project Trust. Various press release type materials and non-authoritative sources make this claim but I removed it until reliable evidence is given. Billlion (talk) 18:04, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Some sources

Scottish?

She was born in London and mostly grew up in England, her mum was Australian, and she doesn't have a Scottish accent. Her dad's forebears were Scots though. Is that enough these days?

--Dr Greg Wood (talk) 07:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

She might say She is Scottish but technically She is not!, She was born in London, England to an English Army, so She is English, She is living in Scotland doesn't make her Scottish since Scotland is in Britain, and What citizenship does she hold? Scottish? No. Scottish Citizenship doesn't exist. She is British Citizen, just like everyone in Britain. She is saying She is Scottish is like an American saying they are Irish because they are Irish descent, But technically they are American — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.205 (talk) 03:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

"I have lived in Scotland full-time for the last 20 years, I was brought up in Scotland through my childhood, I am from a family that has lived in Scotland for centuries. I have never felt English, and I have never felt British, politically. I am happy to describe myself as Scottish"[3]. If she identifies as Scottish, she is Scottish, being born in London makes her legally English, but that's it, you can legally perform a renunciation of citizenship. © Tbhotch™ 18:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
If she identifies as Irish, she is Irish? If she identifies as Black, she is Black? Billy Connolly can declare he isn't Scottish? She has one Australian and one Scottish parent. She was born and lived in England and was educated to adulthood, except briefly, in private schools and an elite university England. (Why spurn the ancient Scottish universities?) She decided she was Scots long before she moved there. Her Scottish identification is racial in basis, decided against the facts of her lived experience. She is saying she is racially Scots on her father's side ("for centuries"), as Donald Trump is racially Scots on his mother's side, by blood, nothing to do with 'civic nationalism'. Genuine nationality is not about race or buying property somewhere, or choosing or declining an inherited label; it is about growing up in a dense network of shared experience (often more about embarrassment than pride). On that basis of all that, her claim to Scottishness is very thin and not a little unpleasant. But she moved there and she likes it. Good for her. (She's wonderful. I wish she'd moved to Wales.) Burraron (talk) 18:47, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
"If she identifies as Black" i.e. False analogy. The rest of your comment is more of the same. © Tbhotch™ 19:11, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
She lays claim to an experience that is not her own. It is possible to hollow out whatever it means to have a shared identity, something profound. If Scottish identity means anything it is a web of shared experience. But, as I said, some people go for a shallower, impoverished, conception of these things. And some people are happy to shop for identities or pick and choose Burraron (talk) 21:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Nationality

I decided to go ahead and change her nationality to British for the following reason. Although she does identify as Scottish, she was still born in England. As this source puts it, "Great Britain [...] is a geographic term referring to the island also known simply as Britain. It’s also a political term for the part of the United Kingdom made up of England, Scotland, and Wales." Since Britain is made up of both England and Scotland, it would be more proper to refer to her as British, that way we follow her statements regarding what she identifies as, yet we don't violate the fact that she is still legally English by birth. If anyone disagrees or has a different argument to add, please do bring it up here. Film Enthusiast (talk) 17:32, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I think it should be changed to Scottish, as the identity/brand of actors is important to their public persona, and Tilda has made it a thing now where she is referenced as Scottish. This seems a similar situation to Taron Egerton?Halbared (talk) 08:43, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
Is it OK for people to impose themselves on other nations? Surely it is for Scotland to decide who is Scottish. It is perfectly OK to report her identification, but to treat it as more than that is something else, surely. Lots of people have been sincerely convinced that they are Napoleon Bonaparte without being actors. Stikko (talk) 22:27, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
In Wikipedia:Nationality of people from the United Kingdom#Guide_to_finding_UK_nationality it says, Look specifically for evidence that the person has a preferred nationality.Halbared (talk) 08:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Halbared: True, and as I said earlier, I know she identifies as Scottish. But as I previously stated, she was still born in England, therefore, British is the best term as it covers both countries, those of which correspond to her identity as Scottish and her place of birth, hence English. Or would English-born Scottish be more preferable? Also, the term British is an official legal nationality of the UK, of which is composed of both Scotland and England, in part. What the subjects identifies as shouldn't be too heavily relied on, instead there should be a balance between their identity and how reliable sources describe them.
As for your suggestion, that is an essay (which is composed of opinions by Wikipedia editors) not a guideline, policy, or MOS, therefore it's not as reliable to base off of, and shouldn't be taken with too much consideration. MOS:ID would be a more suitable guideline to utilize. — Film Enthusiast✉ 16:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
I think as MOS:ID is a generic thing, covering generalities, and UK nationality is a specific thing, referring to the identities of actors from the UK, that as a specific guide is a more suitable one. I haven't looked too hard at whether Tilda now has third party sources referring to her as Scottish, cultural identity isn't just place of birth, or parentage.Halbared (talk) 17:27, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
It's still an essay, it should be taken with a grain of salt. You shouldn't be relying only on that to support your argument, otherwise it may come off as weak. Also, let me reiterate my previous question, would English-born Scottish be more preferable? Because you're right, cultural identity isn't just place of birth, or parentage, but it also isn't solely the identity/brand of actors. — Film Enthusiast✉ 17:42, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
I think the combination of preference from the individual in accordance with third party sources is fairly strong. It's only in this case (I think because it's recent and not established); long time established stars like Sean Connery Anthony Hopkins have no trouble because their brand has been in existence for decades. But stars like Christian Bale and others still need to keep asserting in interviews what they are. Third party sources eventually catch on. Like it appears to be the case here. Two of the guides points are self, which we've covered and third party sources which exist. I don't personally like 'English born', it looks clunky. Place of birth is covered in early life/info box. I took a look at JRR Tolkien/Rudyard Kipling/Anna Taylor Joy. They each take different paths.Halbared (talk) 17:55, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Halbared: I agree, but only if such sources are generally reliable, not just random outlets on the web. They must be credible. — Film Enthusiast✉ 18:06, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Film Enthusiast:, Yes, I agree with this too, which is why I try and find good sources that make the case. I think this should be the best one? It's a list of Scottish actors on Scotland.org. [1]Halbared (talk) 18:10, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
After a quick look; Britannica, Hello magazine, Daily Record and National Galleries of Scotland amongst others all refer to her as Scottish.Halbared (talk) 17:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Halbared: I can't find anything from National Galleries of Scotland describing Tilda as Scottish. Care to point out where exactly does it say that? As for the rest, only Encyclopedia Britannica would be a reliable source, the other two are more tabloid-like and not as valid, they should be treated with skepticism. — Film Enthusiast✉ 17:54, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
It looks like I misread or misunderstood the National Galleries of Scotland criteria on the page I looked at, they actually describe her as British. I was wrong there. I understand Record would be a poor source, I thought Hello would be good. THere is this [2], and [3], a native of Scotland.Halbared (talk) 18:03, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Halbared: The last three that you have suggested might work, but I have found many other reliably stronger sources call her otherwise: The New York Times [4], Variety [5], Reuters [6], The Guardian [7], TheWrap [8], The Wall Street Journal [9], The Times [10], The Daily Telegraph [11]. I think this is more than enough to settle it. — Film Enthusiast✉ 19:06, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
Good work, this can't be 'settled' in that sense, it's an ongoing process, I would think that scotland.org is the 'stronger' source, but it seems to be an impasse, I think specificity is better, but at the moment Tilda's career isn't dependent or reflective of her Scottish identity, so I don't have anything else to add I think.Halbared (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
@Halbared: Meant to say enough to settle it 'for now'. The Scotland.org website is strong enough, but we need more sources to support her Scottish specificity if we want to use that term, and at the moment, there aren't as many sources describing her as such, as opposed to the several that do describe her as British. It is the most common term used to reference her, as proven by these sources. — Film Enthusiast✉ 21:59, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
Sure, that's good reasoning.Halbared (talk) 22:03, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
She specifically states that she is first and foremost a Scot. Would we have wikipedia pages of transgendered people with their birth genders shown? 194.105.188.81 (talk) 08:38, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.scotland.org/about-scotland/culture/scottish-film/scottish-actors
  2. ^ https://thegentlewoman.co.uk/library/tilda-swinton
  3. ^ https://www.bifa.film/people/tilda-swinton/
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