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42-Line Gutenberg Bible[edit]

A photo of the 42-Line Gutenberg Bible should be included in the article. This is a classic example of the first and yet very beautiful typography being employed by the Father of Typography Johannes Gutenberg. The first printed product by Gutenberg is the 42-Line [Gutenberg] Bible. Later, he reprinted a second edition, called the 36-Line [Gutenberg] Bible. --- Hartmut Teuber, 22 June 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

LaTeX 'typewriter' spacing[edit]

The article says "Text typeset using LaTeX digital typesetting software showing unconventional double spacing after a period, a frequent carryover among novices to typesetting who mistakenly use the spacing convention of typewriters". Yes, this is a common user fault, but no, LaTeX does not put a "double space" after a period. It puts a slightly longer space than between words, which is perfectly acceptable. If you write one space or two spaces or three spaces in LaTeX source following a period, the result is the same. So LaTeX in fact *corrects* such errors from the user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah. It looks like someone's trying to put down LaTeX, while it actually got it right. First note that it is easier to read a sentence if the period has a larger space after it. This is still true today. Back in the day, typewriters used fixed width fonts, and as such all of the spaces were the same size. So to make the space larger, typists used two spaces after the period. However, for modern publishing, typesetting software like LaTeX automatically sets the space in (so typists no longer need to put the double space in). This is also true for most modern word processors as well. The extra space is there and it is not unconventional, but standard. If you want to get into why LaTeX's spacing algorithm is different, here's a place we can look: or maybe we can look at the source code to identify what it's doing.2620:101:F000:702:5E93:A2FF:FE7A:3E63 (talk) 23:22, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

The choice of LaTeX is not the best choice for lengthy texts like in articles or books. It is less readable than Garamond and similar typefaces. The leading is OK there. This can be used as an example of not ideal choice of a font for this kind publication. You can contrast it with another typeface to show how a discriminating choice of typeface affects readability and appreciation of calm esthetic. Most readers will agree that the other font agrees with the document type better and is more readable. You can use the 19th century Most Wanted poster as an example of an atrocious typography.

I would think, the article can entertain critiques of a few prints and illustrate how typographical changes improves the esthetics of them. --- Hartmut Teuber, 22 June 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:53, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Note: LaTeX is not a font and can be used to set text in Garamond. (talk) 03:57, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

List of professions in introduction[edit]

The second paragraph in the introduction states: "Typography is performed by typesetters, compositors, typographers, graphic designers, art directors, manga artists, comic book artists, graffiti artists, clerical workers, and everyone else who arranges type for a product." Typesetters and compositors are the same profession, and both are also now referred to as typographers. Also, manga artists, comic book artists, and graffiti artists (in general) work with lettering, not type, and thus do not practice typography. Cityscaping (talk) 00:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Some times it is useful to use two different words that mean much the same thing --- typesetter versus compositor --- as a way of introducing topic-specific synonyms to a general readership. "Typesetter" is a self-explanatory compound noun, and in the publishing and printing business the industry term use is "compositor". If I were to edit the lead para now, deleting "typesetters" and leaving only "compositors", the industry-specific nomenclature would obfuscate the text and make it harder for a general readership to comprehend. So I'm leaving both terms in as a way of educating readers.
Your assertion that comic book creators mainly work with lettering and not type is not true. This was recently challenged by a very highly-regarded professional colleague of mine in the type busines, Thomas Phinney. I challenged it and reverted his edit and Thomas conceded he got it wrong. F.Y.I: at present comic books are are lettered using digital typefaces and fonts, mainly those made by industry specialist Nate Piekos (Blambot Fonts) and his rivals. Hand-lettering in comic book production is a fast-diminishing craft and art. Arbo (talk) (17:03, 17 October 2015)‎ (UTC)
As a former typographer (and was baptized as a Disciple of Gutenberg in Germany), I agree with the criticism of the list of occupations. Plain using of types does not make a typographer. Writing letters lly creatively as in graffitis also is not what typography is about. Not every typesetter is a typographer, one needs to remember. Typography employs esthetic principles in designing their products to aid processing of multifaceted information more effectively and make them memorable. So manga artists, comic book artists, graffiti artists are NO TYPOGRAPHERs. --- Hartmut Teuber, 22 June 2016. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Experimental typeface uses[edit]

I think when David Carson is mentioned his significance of breaking the rules of Modernist graphic design should be stressed. The end of the modernist movement began with artists like Carson abandoning what they were told they had to do and treating design more like art for art's sake. (talk) 02:24, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

General meaning of "Typography"[edit]

The meaning of the word "typography by itself without an adjective usually include positive quality (at least 'good') or acceptable use of typography. Attaching a positive attribute is mostly redundant, unless you wish to praise a typographical work highly. When a typography is bad, it requires a negative attributive adjective, like "bad or atrocious typography". --- Hartmut Teuber, 22 June 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:08, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Please can somebody remove this unelegant and quite vague line in the introductory part (it seems I can't edit it) "Digitization opened up typography to new generations of previously unrelated designers and lay users, and David Jury, head of graphic design at Colchester Institute in England, states that "typography is now something everybody does."[4]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Rewriting Principles of the typographic craft[edit]

Hey everyone, I will be working on rewriting the Principles of typographical craft section on this article. First I wonder about the location of the section and whether it should be under Text typefaces, perhaps it should be its own separate section? Here is an outline of proposed changes to the article:

Principles of Typographical Craft

The section will start out with a short history on the principles of typography and how they have developed out of handwriting, moveable type and manual typography.

I. Legibility

This section will briefly discuss how letters were first drawn to how they are now. Plus a look at the differences between letters as typefaces shifted from black-letter to serif to sans-serif typefaces. Some discussion about how the independent attributes of each letter are based on vertical, horizontal, round and diagonal strokes. Finally current research on how our familiarity with typefaces now affects legibility. For example why we find it so difficult to distinguish black-letter characters.

II. Readability

This section will discuss how typography can aid or detract from readability. First a brief history of the development of the page and typographic conventions to aid reading e.g. Alcuin of York introducing upper-case letters to signify the start of a sentence, gradually increasing white space on the page, etc. Then this section will cover early studies in typographic research on reading speed and comprehension to current research's shift away from that as a definitive marker for good typography.

III. Aesthetics

This section will discuss the aesthetics of typography and various viewpoints on this topic. This section will start with the Trajan Column and its influence on typography to this day. Following that will be some information on how aesthetics have changed from the German Black-letter to the French Neoclassical, etc, and how that has affected how typefaces have looked but also how typography is set. Then some information on the Bauhaus, Jan Tschichold and Die Neue Typografie. Plus some discussion on how aesthetics are now following post-modernism.

Lee.eric.neu (talk) 20:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for posting the abstract of your planned contribution(s) to the article. Is your first name Eric, or Lee? Since you plan to do a rewrite of an existing section, please post a draft of your rewrite in its entirety here on the talk page before editing the article text itself. As senior editor on this one I would liken the opportunity to work with you. Thanks. Arbo (talk) 23:41, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for your helpful feedback to my student (Eric). I know he has a number of quality sources to support his proposed additions (he just completed a substantive lit review on the topic) and will also remind him to post his rewrite draft here before moving it to the mainspace. Thanks again! Amyc29 (talk) 16:02, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Hey James, hope you've been well! I have a draft available on my sandbox page, thought it would be better to organize our discussion there instead of here? But let me know if you think otherwise! Thank you so much! Lee.eric.neu (talk) 19:18, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Notepad is a basic text-editing program and it's most commonly used to view or edit text files. A text file is a file type typically identified by the .txt file name extension. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:41, 15 December 2016 (UTC)