Talk:U.S. National Video Game Team

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Untitled[edit]

I have noted that Terry Minnich and Ken Williams have been removed from the list of USNVGT members. I would like to verify that they are indeed members and that this information is correct. walter day, Founder, U.S. National Video Game Team —Preceding unsigned comment added by Walter Day (talkcontribs) 12:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


I went ahead and undid the changes made. The page should be back to normal. Ken VGEvo (talk) 16:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Chronological timeline[edit]

This list is not formatted in WP's normal way and (in my opinion) would need a rewrite before being returned to the article: RJFJR (talk) 15:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

{{Prose|date=October 2010}}

Stub[edit]

I tagged the article as stub because it currently consists of one sentence and a list of players. RJFJR (talk) 15:56, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Additional information has been added, and will continue to be added. Sprinter461 (talk) 02:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Merge/RD into Twin Galaxies[edit]

This page essentially contains the same information as on the Twin Galaxies page's subsection.--Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 23:04, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Additional cited sources have been added to note how and when the USNVGT operated as a separate entity from Twin Galaxies and Walter Day starting in the late 1980s. More information can be added if desired. Page should not be merged as they are not one-in-the-same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperPacMan (talkcontribs) 15:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)


I'm aware of no "past members" ever being removed officially from the team - and as one of those members who have been removed from this page, I'm puzzled that we're left with a single "current member", with all traces of the history and other members of the team being removed? Everything I'm seeing is consistent with vandalism of this page, and I'm not sure who or what is driving these changes. Please provide official documentation showing how/when the historical team members were considered removed - otherwise, they should remain. Brent Walker — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.161.120 (talk) 01:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)


Buying an expired TM awaiting approval does not make u a co owner or any owner legally

Merge or Delete[edit]

This page contains a lot of the same information as Twin Galaxies page, as mentioned previously. Press releases and articles (both written by the same person?) seem to promote the organization itself and no not necessarily add value to the page.

It was also mentioned that a trademark has been filed. A cursory search of the US trademark database confirms this, however the USPTO states the trademark application has been applied for, not granted at this time. Here is a description of the intention of the U.S. National Video Game Team:

"US Serial Number: 86718839 -- Advertising and promotion services and related consulting; Arranging and conducting special events for business purposes; Arranging and conducting special events for commercial, promotional or advertising purposes; Arranging personal appearances by persons working in the field of film, music, television, entertainment or sport; Association services, namely, promoting the interests of video games and eSports and related media; Developing promotional campaigns for business; Endorsement services, namely, promoting the goods and services of others; Event planning and management for marketing, branding, promoting or advertising the goods and services of others; Lobbying services, namely, promoting the interests of video games and eSports and related media in the fields of legislation and regulation; Marketing services, namely, promoting or advertising the goods and services of others; Marketing services, namely, promotional services for the memorabilia and collectables of others; Online advertising and promotional services; Organisation of exhibitions and events for commercial or advertising purposes; Organisation of exhibitions and trade fairs for business and promotional purposes; Organisation of promotions using audiovisual media; Organization of events, exhibitions, fairs and shows for commercial, promotional and advertising purposes; Promoting a series of films for others; Promoting public awareness of video games and eSports and related media; Promoting sports competitions and events of others; Promoting the goods and services of others by means of distributing advertising on the Internet"

As claimed earlier and later, self promotion does seem to be the main goal. As such, this article should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.96.183.9 (talk) 05:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


This article also violates Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not and Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources, the author of recent edits and main supporter of this article is supporting it with PR he has written himself, as a means of self promotion, which is not in any way a reliable source as anyone can construct those "PR Releases" for any purpose. The author in question also does not seem to comprehend the idea of relevance and neutrality of subject as well as Wikipedia:Ownership_of_content, the wiki is not meant to be used in the way this author intends and for all the reasons mentioned above, the article should be deleted as it is not relevant nor noteworthy on it's own at this time and has been covered in a more significant article Twin_Galaxies. 216.223.64.50 (talk) 14:55, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


Funny that super pac deletes everything and now is crying about this page on a unauthorized facebook account of this page

Also Wiki shouldn't there be repercussions on a person retracting all they said to cover up their wrong doings ??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.99.127 (talk) 19:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)


Another thing wiki patrick scott patterson claiming ownership and tm illegally on this page, threatens me and others with legal action, and even goes as far with sprinter to personally attack me on here claiming falsely I was vandelizing the page how is that ok????

I vote this page be deleted not only for the present for the past as well many of the players are not notable, here is some reasons why a person playing a game to a billion point points one game does not define a persons overall skill or ability, same to be said about the new comer dance game marathoner, ok yes she is good at one kind of game worthy how of any team us or national????? this antire page was edited and ripped apart by Patrick Scott Patterson super pac and sprinter Tim Mcvey, they retracted almost everything they wrote and now are crying about it on their own pages which IS ok BUT I say both of them should be blocked from posting or talking on any of this wiki or other wiki pages pending full investigation so you can see both parties have no credibility to claim they are historians, writers or even gamers, let alone qualified to make any claims here. They came because of self promotion and selfish acts all out for them not the gamers not the people, they do this with everything nothing the do is original, they have taken others property included but not limited to photos, stolen video content on and off youtube.

Old submissions of gamers when he was a referee threatening to sell them on ebay or even post them without the persons permission as he continued to do on youtube till he got caught, falsifying Guinness, creating and self entering scores into the the Twin Galaxies Data base of his own others and wife's.

I ask you wiki do you want that smudge here ??? and fake history a person of no shame and no guilt that claims he can do no wrong a known markist and radical male feminist, not to mention biased.


A man that has written lies in published articles that made national news and sites with lies and incomplete information????

this is not an opinion or a slander or libel or accusation this is a FACT 100%

If you would like details just ask I have all the info needed.

Patrick scott patterson is known for all of that you already seen his poor childish antics and acts here so ask yourself why this page should even stay one more hour here most of the original team were one game hit wonders — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.99.127 (talk) 19:59, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

99.119.99.127 is Rudy J Ferretti. Check out his Facebook page. You will clearly see what he is all about. Just a person crying for attention. And willing to do anything to get it. 70.39.17.158 (talk) 10:58, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


Oh I am terribly sorry that the TRUTH hurts that you must come here in his little defense of defending as noted or take note on it his lies and corrupted history

and considering your from Iowa I can only imagine who you are.... JUST DELETE THIS PAGE please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.99.127 (talk) 18:22, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Off-site organizing[edit]

As good time as ever to remind all involved of our Wikipedia:Conflict of interest guideline, which requires appropriate disclosure czar 05:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Full name and picture[edit]

If the mans full name is what he goes by please stop modifying it. If he wants to be known as Patrick Scott Patterson then that is what should be on display here.

Also there is nothing wrong with other people being in pictures in the article as long as the photos are relevant and properly described. In the case of Walter Day and Billy Mitchell the names of the other two gentleman are not even given.

Stop the stupid edit war please. AirplanePete (talk) 21:35, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Trademark Info[edit]

The purpose of the rebranded team is laid out well in the trademark. Leave the information please. AirplanePete (talk) 05:45, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

The info is irrelevant and not consistent with Wiki guidelines. I question your reason for wanting it to be in there as you seem to have an personal beef with one of the co-owners and the team itself. If you look around Wiki you do not see trademark information laid out for other companies. Not to mention that you continue to remove valid and cited information about current organization in order to put in this cluttered and irrelevant information.47.190.47.120 (talk) 14:10, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


Formatting[edit]

It seems user Datagod keeps making unsubstantiated edits to this page as part of a personal beef he has with one of the current owners. First he recently added false information about Tim Mcvey into the page before removing it. He now snuck in and reversed edits to conflict with the officially listed information of the organization via their official website. I urge the editors of Wikipedia to look into his interests here esp. regarding off site organizting, which I believe he himself is aiming to do. With any Wiki page, the official company website is typically the cited valid source and any efforts by Datagod to change the listed information should be consistent with the information that exists through the official source. His formatting of "by promienece" for example is a matter of opinion on his part, not fact. Wikipedia pages should deal in fact. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 16:30, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

  • My interest is only in the truth. There are several investigations underway currently that are uncovering conflicting tales of the origins. I have no beef with current trademark holders. I have no interest in the team. My interest is in making a factually accurate wikipedia article. The current owner of the trademark has made reference to a young protege of his, a young historian following in his footsteps that reached out to him regarding Wikipedia. I believe that person is you. Your mention of offsite organization and sock puppeting is rather ironic. You perhaps may not understand this, but an owner of a website cannot simply use that website as a definitive source when writing a Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not merely another place that acts as a searchable copy of corporate websites. This history of the team goes back decades. The current owner of the trademark has the ability to change his own website to any version of history he wants then he has you to come here and make sure the article is in line with the website. As the facts come to light and if they can be properly sourced, they will be added to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Datagod (talkcontribs) 16:54, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
  • I also want to note that your edits keep removing Carrie Swidecki from the former members list. To my knowledge she is the only female member of the team and it is a disgrace to keep removing her from the list. datagod (talk) 🍁 17:37, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Again an anonymous IP has come to this article and reverted my edits, claiming vandalism. This article is not merely meant to be a carbon copy of an external website that the anon IP is clearly associated with. Carrie Swidecki was the very first member announced after the new trademark was issued. (https://twitter.com/USNVGT/status/652304286026625024). To avoid confusion I have changed ALUMNI to PAST MEMBERS. First name alphabetical listing is not an optimal reading format. datagod (talk) 🍁 16:13, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I have no association with team, unlike your apparent associations with the people you post at top. From my research you are posting 'promiance' based on your opinion. If you were doing truth then peopel ike Steve Harris would be at the top of a 'promiance' list over members who did not stay as long or own or operate the team in the past. What do you have against Brent Walker for example putting him at the bottom every time?

  • I take it you are mocking a misspelling of the word prominence. Ironic that you do it in the same sentence as your own spelling mistakes. Unprofessional and not necessary. datagod (talk) 🍁 18:35, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

You keep listing this Swidecki person but there is nothing on the website that lists him as a team member. From what I can find he agreed to join the team but quit without taking part in a single team activity. Are we going to list the people who got cut from the Patriots practice squad as former team members now too?

For someone who claims not to be interested in the team you sure spend a lot of time adding in edits for it even when they go against officially sourced and cited information. I believe this to be due to your personal issue with the trademark holder and nothing more. Unlike you I reached out directly to ask him questions and was told they researched for two years before launching the website in addition to the life time of research he already did on the topic. Not only is that going to make me trust him over you on the topic but I must ask if you have even bothered to ask him directly what his sources are?

You have expressed a personal beef with the trademark owner all over the internet for years. How is anyone supposed to believe you are interested in proper history of this page when tens of thousands of words and memes and videos by you clearly show you have a personal beef with him? Why are all of your edits within the realm of personal issues? You are too close to the subjects you edit on Wiki and cannot possibly be objective. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 12:59, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Carrie Swidecki[edit]

As I said earlier, my interest is in the readability of the article, nothing more. If you want to list the team members alphabetically by all means do so, but at least do it my last name first. As for Carrie Swidecki I provided a link to a press release in 2015 hailing her as the first member of the rebooted team. Surely you can see that she was part of the team. She is a notable person as well. This article details the entire history and is not meant to be a carbon copy of a marketing website. datagod (talk) 🍁 16:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

By continuing to remove Carrie, you are showing your own bias. datagod (talk) 🍁 16:31, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Either a strange coincidence, or somebody actively trying to erase Carrie Swidecki from the team history. Less than 24 hours of citing a press release, the press release is removed from the website. I am not going to bother looking for the related tweets, they are more than likely removed as well. This is exactly why we cannot trust a corporate website as the official source of the history of this organization. Thankfully I found an archived copy of the press release and will link to that instead. datagod (talk) 🍁 02:35, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Carrie Swidecki was not on the team long enough to be considered a member. In fact she was only on for a couple of months before she was released. She did not participate in any official USNVGT activities, and is not even listed as a member on the official website. I'm sure if I asked her myself, should would even agree that she does not want to be listed. Hector Telloc (talk) 05:10, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Carrie was on the team long enough to be announced via press releases and twitter. Team membership is binary. Either you were a member of the team, or you were not. There is no expiry date on truth. William Henry Harrison was the 9th president of the United States. He died after 31 days. Even if he died on the day he took office, he would still have been the 9th president. datagod (talk) 🍁 18:29, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

It seems you are only interested in fighting for information here if you feel the trademark holder has something to do with it. When I E-Mailed him, he plainly answered their stance on this and pointed out that she quit the team "without taking part in a single team activity"

I can only venture a guess that you have not asked the source directly? He also noted that there are many other people who obtained "membership" in the past that are also not included in their official list for the same reasons and that the decision not to include these people came through a team vote not a unilateral decision.

Your example sucks because this is not a president. There is no swearing in here or anything. If you took a job and the paperwork was filed and you then quit before showing up for a single day of work could you claim to have worked there on a resume? No.

Again, you seem more interested in creating drama by creating edits on a page you claim not to care about that favor the frequent subjects of your photos or that you believe hurts the copyright holder even if it appears the team votes on such things across all members.

By continuing to add Cary, you are showing your own bia.s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.86.114.4 (talk) 13:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Clear that user Data God is making changes based on his own personal bias. Previous editor is correct in noting that Swiderki appears at no team appearances and team logo never appeared connected to any of her appearances. The other members announced to join after him have appeared at events Chris Tang and Lonny Mcdonald. Swiderki never did so it looks like an intended relationship that never went beyond that. Announcment and actual participation are two different htings.185.101.70.74 (talk) 13:30, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

You keep focusing on alleged motivations and inner feelings, oh anonymous user with a personal relationship to the trademark owner. Your speculation is irrelevant. Press releases were made. Fan fair was enjoyed. Congratulations were given around. The fact remains she was the first member announced. That fact is documented. Your persistent removal shows your bias. datagod (talk) 🍁 17:47, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

  • I am glad that you confirmed with the team that she quit. Your very words acknowledge her membership, in addition to the press release and social media postings. I datagod (talk) 🍁 18:03, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Amusing considering you and Snowflake Furry both do the same to numerous people. Again, I have no personal relationship, but unlike you apparently, I have asked various members questions directly. The interests of the consensus here seems to go in the favor of the official cited source while your interests are by your own words not in the team, so they must be only in creating drama by making edits you believe will get attention from the trademark holder you cannot go a day without referencing. Acknowledgement of her joining the team was never called into question, the question is why does the team not recognize it, and it is because she quit before she ever showed up for a day of work. Your persistent addition shows your bias and intention only to continue to vandalize the page due to your personal and childish grudge with one of the owners. For someone who claims not to care about the team you are spending a lot of time attempting to write your own version of its history here. Stop. You are not doing the proper thing int he spirit of Wikipedia.71.86.114.4 (talk) 22:19, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Without identifying yourself or giving any evidence whatsoever, all you are doing is making allegations. For all we know, you are the owner himself trying to get around conflict of interest rules. It does not matter though. Everything you said here is irrelevant. Carrie was on the team. Period. I am finished talking to you, as it is pointless. datagod (talk) 🍁 22:56, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Tim McVey is quoted here with regards to Carrie Swidecki:
   "Carrie is the gold standard of what a video game champion should be," McVey stated. "She is positive and giving and we couldn't think of anyone better to kick off the new Team." datagod (talk)  🍁 23:02, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
  • This was part of his official press release. datagod (talk) 🍁 23:02, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

None of this changes the fact that she quit the team before working for it. I believe you are simply attempting to troll this page due to your personal beef with the trademark holder, who you can't go without mentioning for even a single day either on here or in your Twin Galaxy and Facebook rants. Can I ask why you appear in the edit history removing information lile that in the past and now you want to add it? You are not interested in the knowledge base. I suggest you move on.71.86.114.4 (talk) 13:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

  • No idea what you are talking about. It is pointless at this time. All you are doing is cloning a corporate website. That is not what Wikipedia is for. The history of the organization goes back decades and is not determined by you. Carrie was a member plain and simple. You are attempting to remove her from history in some sort of misogynist revenge attack for getting your feelings hurt. Her departure was embarrassing, I get it. But that is irrelevant. datagod (talk) 🍁 13:10, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

So the person who accuses other editoors of having a personal issue you keep adding in personal issues. Uncertain what is embarassing or what feelings are hurt here. Simple facts are that the official organization does not consider her alumni because she never did any work while a "member" and the fact you do not add in the names of other people left off that list for the same reasons tells me this is personal.

You are attempting to screw with the page due to some childish revenge attack for getting your own feelings hurt by the owners. The history of the organization goes back decades and is not determined by you either. I am just one of the editors here citing the official source over opinion. You are going against the concensus as well at least three or four people here agree with me, not you. Stop vandalizing this article.71.86.114.4 (talk) 13:34, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Your input is irrelevant. You and your anonymous ip accounts are sock puppets. This article goes beyond the scope of a website that has the power to rewrite history any way it sees fit. Walter Day contests the claim that Riley coined the name. Others in the community agree. I can see that it is contested. I am certain that if that info was added, you would point out the official website of the trademark owners does not mention, and would use that weak logic to revert. datagod (talk) 🍁 17:16, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

I will give you credit for at least making edits to the formatting, improving the look of the article. Perhaps we can get back together doing more of that? Improving not cloning. Multiple sources. Etc datagod (talk) 🍁 17:19, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Again you lean on the idea that the website is what has this ultimate power. Walter Day contests the claim that Riley coined the name. Fine. He also said in 98 that he took Riley's idea. Steve Sanders agrees that Riley coined the name. So does an article by a historian that researched this previously. So does Triforce. So does the official website. You choose to believe one person who can't be objective over numerous sources one that so happens to be a friend from the looks of it. You sure take a lot of pictures of him. Ever consider the fact that the trademark owners did research you did not and beyond the opinions of people who have something to loose by making other claims?

   With regards to your above statements, do you have any sources for these claims?  How do you know so much about what people think or feel, unless you have a personal relationship with them? datagod (talk)  🍁 19:59, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Besides the fact that you take more pictures of him than Peter Parker does Spidermans? Maybe your pictures of yourself with them? Or your username being posted on the founder section of Twin Galaxy. Why you do like to defelect so much by asking questions about you when you cant prove your own edits? Can we focus on the article or maybe can you go edit articles you have expert knowledge of? Maybe Donald Trump pages based on the Datagod posts on Reddits The Donald group? Maybe on photograhy? All you seen to know about the topic of this page is what you are told by your friends and what you think goes against the owners, which you are often seen online ripping into personally. or are y ou claiming not to be the guy who asked someone if they "sucked his big Texas *****?" recently? Are you claiming not to be that same person?71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

  • I just noticed this incredible inflammatory and unprofessional edit by 71.86.114.4. The fact that account is still able to post here is sad. datagod (talk) 🍁 15:12, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

It is nowhere near as inflammatory and unprofessional as your public attacks on the owners, which can easily be found and demonstrate why you are so eager to vandalize this page constantly. Are you denying that you do this?71.86.114.4 (talk) 19:05, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

I would refrain from claims of sock puppets because even Wiki shut that down. I can't speak for others but I believe I have studyed this more deeply than you and I want things to read correct. You seem to think that because you don't agree with information that has been officially posted that you have the sole power to alter this page, ignoring multiple opinions to the contrary. I believe your motives to run deeper than an attempt to improve a page ona subect you yourself said you do not caer about. If you do not care what is your motive? Can you admit to having a bias against one or both of the owners and maybe some of the members to?71.86.114.4 (talk) 17:32, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

   You, an anonymous IP user, have intimate details of the thought processes of folks mentioned in the article.  You also are very close to one of the trademark owners of the USNVGT as can be seen by his public posts on social media describing  "how an eager young historian out there in wikipedia is doing things right especially when it comes to proper sort order for a team" (paraphrased).  Your very action is the definition of sock puppet or a meat puppet.  In either case, your comments are irrelevent.  The article here on wikipedia does not have to bow down to your demands.

So because someone made a post once you assume I'm the same person and because I actually contact a person to ask for information you assume that I have a relationship with aht person. Amazing how you accuse others of what you have been doing.

The article here on wikipedia does not have to bow down to your demands. At least mine are sourced from something.71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:25, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

   Sourcing from your own website is against the rules of Wikipedia.  This page was almost deleted once already because of actions by SuperPacMan.  datagod (talk)  🍁 02:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the tip. Again, no matter how much you want me to be, I have nothing to do with the organization. Looking through the history this page was almost deleted once because of an edit war and vandalization that involved a gamer you support on another page and yourself ironically enough. I am just trying to expand on an article that needs it and citing official sources. You seem to have determined yourself above cited sources and continue to allow your one sided grudge with the owners cloud your edits here. Plesae stop and think back on if you are responding because of the edits or because you dislike the owners personally.

I will remain anon because I see how you and your peers rip into people on the Twin Galaxy forums on Facebook. I just want to improve Wiki articles on interesting videogame topics. K Thx.71.86.114.4 (talk) 19:05, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Readability[edit]

Sorting people by first name is not professional. This article needs to be worthy of an ecyclopedia. I changed the names to be sorted by last name. This page is about the history of a team that goes back decades and is not here to merely mimic the current USNVGT website. datagod (talk) 🍁 04:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Stop the cyberstalking[edit]

The edit history on both the article and talk page shows I havent made a single edit to either until now, yet the 22:19, 31 August 2017 (UTC) entry the IP user who's obsessed with me due to believing I'm someone he choses to have a grudge with in real life mentions my user handle and accuses me of edits. Both the IP user and I have discussed other articles, only to have the IP user repeatedly refuse to give any sources and instead just insult due to the whom he believe I am. The fact I had nothing to do with this article and the user again chooses to bring me up I think demonstrates the unhealthy obsession with me. I have finally taken the time to look into this and I suspect I know whats going on here. The owner of the USNVGT -- who the IP user claims to be in contact with, has been cyber stalking someone he's confusing with me and choses to carry on that obsession here. Whatever obsession the owner of the team, and the user have with that individual is between them and the law, leave me out of it. I have zero interest in editing the wiki pages for this club. I have zero interest in any sort of feud just because we disagreed on other articles. Get over me. Its not healthy. SnowflakeFury (talk) 19:14, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Pot, meet kettle.71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:23, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Cute, except anyone can look at the history of edits here and see what I'm saying is true and you're implication of it being the other way around is false. I've only picked up on the most surface of what your vendetta is, I dont know the whole story, I dont care to know the whole story. Maybe you are a victim, maybe there is a pot and kettle here, don't care. Take it up with your targets and leave me out of it. SnowflakeFury (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2017 (UTC)


Billy Mitchell[edit]

Billy Mitchell goes by the name "Billy" publicly. Listing him as "William Billy Mitchell" is just the anonymous editor's way of putting him last in the list, in some childish effort to show least prominence. My effort is to make this article more readable. William Shatner for example goes by "Bill" to his friends, yet he is known publicly as William Shatner. Anonymous IP continues to edit war over this and other small details.

Not only is it in line with his name on the official source site it is in line with his name in his Wiki article. To boot, you previously reverted a name on this page numerous times in the same manner you falsely accuse here. You are the one continuing the edit war over this and other small details, almost as if you are seeking a reason. Do you not like the name Wiliam? Nothing wrong with it and is his given name.71.86.114.4 (talk) 18:59, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Datagod[edit]

User Datagod seems more interested in his public personal issue with the owners of the team than any actual input. He recently removed a photo of himself from this page along with William Mitchell. There are numerous photos of himself with Mitchell on the internet and his photos of those people have been publish in Guiness books and magazines. Most of his edits seem to be for those same people and little else.

Someone with the same username can be seen attacking the owners of the team on the Twin Galaxy forums and Facebook. He also runs this Facebooks group that has a lot of content bashing the team owners, one in particular https://www.facebook.com/ArcadeCulture/ including photos of that owner on his "covers"

In addition he deflects from this by accusing me and other editors of having a relation ship with the team which is false in my case and I believe in the others as well.

I think Datagod is simply looking for reasons to alter this page in favor of his friends or to get a rise out of the ownership of it and nothing more. Like wise I feel he is too close to the people he makes edits benefitting. It is clear through his own public posts that he carrys a grudge with the owners and supports people like Waltar Day and William Mitchell unquestionably. Rather than answer to his conflict of interest he tries to accuse the consensus of having it.

Seeing how he speaks of and supports harrasment of his imagined enemys, I want to remain anon and continue to improve Wiki articles inbetween my classes. He keeps accusing and demanding that I reveal stuff about myself while continuing to abuse this page to support his friends and attack or try to annoy his enemys. I do not think he should be editing such an article at all. He cant not be impartial.71.86.114.4 (talk) 19:49, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Your stalking and harassment of me is annoying, but still has no bearing on the facts. Your allegations are categorically false. I am a photographer, have attended over 50 arcade and pinball events. I have met thousands of people and photographed many times more than that at public events. There is no shortage of photos out on the internet of pinball machines, arcade cabinets and yes even people thanks to my efforts. I am contributing to the history of the rebirth of arcade gaming. What have you done except to clone your friend's website? I have no beef with anyone. I am here to improve the article. As I said before there are people who disagree with the current trademark owners's version of the history, people who were actually part of the original over 30 years ago.

Are you really claiming to have no issue with the owners despite quickly located public posts by a Datagod that personally attack him and go back years? Are you really claiming false friendships while claiming that your very obvious personal issue with the owners is false? Do I really need to post links or do you care to revise your statement? 71.86.114.4 (talk) 15:25, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Disclosure: I reached out to welcome Datagod a few weeks ago as part of a pilot project related to welcoming new people and shortly afterward he asked me to look over what has been happening here. I have looked the history of this one article and talk page alone, so I don't feel as though I have a solid grasp on the underlying conflicts, but I will make the following observations:
    1. There seem to be multiple areas of conflict. Specifically I noticed multiple reverts in connection with the following topics: a) Details of the text of the trademark, b) Details of a charitable contribution, c) Name of William/Billy Mitchell, d) Order of listing members (by first name, by last name, or by notability), e) Whether Walter Day was the founder or co-founder, and f) Whether Carrie Swidecki was a team member
    2. There have been accusations of conflicted editing and sock puppetry on both sides, and the article history shows extensive contributions by at least one person directly connected to the organization. These issues came up during the article's deletion discussion and during at least one SockPuppet Investigation. The edit warring also appears to have spilled out into other articles which makes this much harder to review thoroughly.
    3. The article is in pretty terrible shape at present. Most of the few references are either primary references or are not considered reliable references at Wikipedia. There is a lot of room for improvement but rather than collaboration I see petty squabbles about name order and similar issues. The bad faith that is demonstrated here is directly contrary to Wikipedia's behavioral guidelines and the edit warring needs to end.
    4. I think all sides of this dispute need to step away from editing the content of the article until the underlying conflicts can be resolved. Wikipedia has procedures for resolving disputes, but I would specifically recommend either seeking Subject-specific help by posting a question/request at the WikiProject Video Games talk page (which is a group of experienced Wikipedia editors who are knowledgeable about video game issues), or seeking a third opinion (from an experienced Wikipedia editor who may not know anything about video games, but who can help resolve common sense questions like how to name someone, how to order a list or people, whether certain article details need to be covered of not, etc.).
    5. I will be happy to assist anybody who needs help going through the dispute resolution pathway and I will check in to see how things are progressing, but there has to be an effort made on both sides and the edit warring has to stop.
  • -Thibbs (talk) 05:01, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Out of respect to you I will hold back, but please understand that a user named Datagod and the name attached to it can be found in numerous places online attacking the owners of this team on a very childish and nasty personal level. He is listed as a founder of Twin Galaxy and appears in photos being friendly with many of the people he claims to not know personally. I believe his interest in this article is only to change the narrative of it in an attempt to further his clear personal beef with the owners. This appears to go back years.

He seems more hung up on trying to identify me and other editors than listening to our input. Given the fact that one of the owners recently had to file a police report for stalking against an apparent acquaintence of Datagod I am not comfortable with that, nor are some of the other historians I have spoen to who are interested in this article. With that I think having editors who are not familiar with videogames would be a detriment to this and other articles like it. I am just one of several who has been attempting to expand this article because e find the history interesting. Datagod seems intrested in making it read like the stub the co founder had it for 10 yrs which leaves out a considerable amount of information. The first team captain confirms a lot of which he says is disputed information in lots of intereviews, so the fact he has word of mouth disputs is irrelevant.

I am interested in ways you feel would improve it. I have tried to add multiple sources for my recent expansions of the knowledgebase. I have found what the current owners and team ahve apparently found as well, which is that much of the supporting evviddence about the history is found in old publications and not the internet, which mostly contains the co-founder as the primary source. If there is a way to fix that please let me know and I will resolve it. So far I have only found one issue on the official team site that does not check out to deep off line research, of which I suspsect Datadog has not done.71.86.114.4 (talk) 15:25, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Help with Moving Forward[edit]

I welcome Thibbs efforts to resolve this dispute, and any uninvolved editors to improve the article in question. I categortically deny the anonymous IP's baseless allegations. As I have stated many times I am a photographer that has been to dozens of arcade events in the past 7 years, photographing the resurging popularity in arcade games and pinball. As such I have met thousands of players. I agree to no longer edit this article and greatly desire that other editors consider the following:

  • Carrie Swidecki was the first member of the rebooted team. Much fanfare was given at that time. Multiple press releases were made, posts on social media, etc. She is a notable person, a well known world record holder [1] [2]
  • Tim McVey (co-owner) had this to say about Carrie(taken from the press releases):
   To kick off the membership side of the new team, California exergame champion Carrie Swidecki has agreed to join the new USNVGT. A multi-time Guinness World Record gaming champion who has raised thousands for charities such as the Children's Miracle Network, McVey stated that Swidecki sets the bar for what is expected of a Team member. "Carrie is the gold standard of what a video game champion should be," McVey stated. "She is positive and giving and we couldn't think of anyone better to kick off the new Team."
  • Billy Mitchell goes by the name Billy, not William. He is a public figure.
  • Sort order - team members should be listed alphabetically last name first.
  • Most of the data on this page is being directly copied from the official website of the new owners, which is giving them the ability to in effect write whatever history they believe is true. There are other team members (including the founder) who have differing opinions. It is my hope that they give their personal account in an official capacity so that can be included here as well.

These changes I am proposing are a small improvement, and a good start. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Datagod (talkcontribs) 17:04, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

References

You categorically deny years of public attacks on the character of the owners in plain sight? Is there another Datagod at Twin galaxiy?

On the subject of Swiderki, Datagod likes to cite a team press release as a source and quotes from the owners but wants to ignore direct quotes from the owners now that confirm she quit before showing up to work, so to speak. By Datagod's logic I could get hired at Mcdonalds, quit before ever clocking in and call myself a former employee. You cannot quote the owners as a source while denying the owners as a source at the same time.

Most of the data has been sourced from numerous other sources now if you would look that over, including that which you claim are differening opinions with former team members. I would like to continue with this quest if I may.71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion about content[edit]

@SuperPacMan and Datagod: Now that the page is fully protected, I'd like to open this thread to discuss what the issue is with the content and hopefully prevent an edit war. Please describe the concerns that the both of you have. I see Datagod has raised some points in the thread above, so this can be a good start. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 18:49, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Thank you for protecting the page while we discuss this calmly and can hopefully come to an agreement. My main concerns are listed above (Carrie Swidecki, sort order, not using a public name) but in addition to that there is a problem where it seems that if something is added to this article (even if it is properly sourced) the current owner of the team's trademark has people anonymously come to the page and revert the changes, making it fall in line with his own website. The history of competitive video gaming is very important and the new trademark owner's involvement has only been in the past two years. He can write anything he wants on his own website and claim it is true, but simply modifying this article and citing his own website is more than a mere conflict of interest. Constantly bringing up allegations of intent and motive are scare tactics to coerce fellow editors to give up and let him have his own way. The same thing happened on other video game articles that he was interested in. At this point I do not want to even address @SuperPacMan and 71.86.114.4: and would rather simply present my ideas and have a third party make the final call. datagod (talk) 🍁 23:49, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't know why SuperPacman is being mentioned, as it appears he has not logged on here for years. From looking at the edit history it appears he is the trademark holder and co-owner.

The most fascinating thing about this edit war is the fact that Datagod continues to complain about "accusations" while continuing to levy many of his own at every turn. In the case of partial disclosure, I am a history major at UNT. I enjoy video games. I learned about the team's efforts through the local newspaper and simply choose to help.

Datagod claims and continues to claim that we are being sent here by the trademark holder or that he is dictating what we edit. This is a flat out lie. Speaking for myself only of course, I have come here on my own. I have reached out to the trademark holder through e-mail with questions and have found him very forthcoming and helpful and willing to cite the team's sources and conclusions when asked. He also has opinions about Wikipedia that give me serious doubt he would ever want to be involved.

With that, Datagod's internet footprint very clearly shows a long time and apparently personal grudge with the trademark holder. His claims otherwise are falsehoods. He also claims to just be a photographer that happens across some of the people he makes edits on Wiki in favor of, rather than someone who knows them personally. His internet footprint also suggests those are fabrications. I agree with the other editors here that Datagod's only interest in this page is to try and cause headaches for the trademark holder that he demands is involved.

It looks like Datagod's efforts have now caused much of the posted history to be wiped out by editors, the second time the edit history shows this happening. Congrats, dude, you just caused the work of numerous people to be wiped out from this page. I would like an editor's reasoning for doing this. The current membership is listed in Playmeter Magazine, so I can cite them, yes? This does little favor to the former members however, and Datagod I put that on your shoulders directly.

As a history major I can attest that most of the history listed on the team's website checks out to hard copy research and I am in the process of doing more as time allows me to. I have no tangible reason to think I will find many if any errors, speaking as an impartial third party with no relationship to the team no matter how much Datagod wants to claim otherwise. Furthermore, since he is being asked to take part despite having no apparent involvement in this "edit war" then should one of us working to improve this page reach out to him to see if he would consider coming in?

I am heartbroken to see so much valid information removed from this page today and to see it locked down because one person cannot let go of his personal grudge with the trademark owner and chooses to interfere here out of some wild conspiracy theory while denying his very real bias against the people involved with it today. I do not think Datagod is partial enough to continue to have any input here and I ask that the editors reconsider removal of valid information in light of his baseless allegations of collusion. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 18:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

I agree with almost every word of this. Research into the Datagod username shows a multi year history of public attacks on the trademark holder and both apparent organization owners that appear to come with a conflict of interest here. I do not think he has a valid reason to edit this page or he would have done so far before recently. Like yourself I have no association with this person who allegedly sends us here and for him to suggest such a thing is ridiculous. I learned about it in the local paper too and heard one of his local speeches about being proactive relating to games history and felt compelled to fight for this when I saw such edits going on. I did reach out to the trademark owner to ask questions and he actually asked me not to come in here, the opposite of what Datagod claims. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Anonymous Historian, my efforts have focused on truth, readability, and a person's use of their name publicly. Perhaps if you were not so zealous in reverting my every improvement we would not be in this state. I am more than happy to have much more seasoned editors to come here and make changes so the article lines up with Wikipedia policy. That is why I reached out to them for help. I am learning as I go, I have made mistakes too. I apologized for edit warring and it will not happen again. Am I happy the list of names is removed? Of course not. All I wanted was to have truth represented, and be in a proper sort order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Datagod (talkcontribs) 19:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Door swings both ways. You were just as zealous in reverting my every improvement and frankly my improvements and edits to a great many other pages. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

  • (edit conflict) If you're a history major, then you know that the vast majority of sources in this article are either primary sources or unreliable: user-generated and not written through a process of editorial review, nevertheless with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Almost all of the article needs to be gutted and replaced with reliable sourcing. Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources explains this in greater detail. Wikipedia is not a repository for "valid" info—it is a tertiary source that paraphrases reliable, secondary sourcing. If none exists on this topic, its scope should be merged elsewhere, as has been suggested above. All of the recent argument prior to this section is unhelpful and indeed, Wikipedia's policy is to rely on secondary sourcing partly because it avoids editor quibbling over what primary source material should and should not be added. If it's noteworthy info worthy of an encyclopedia, a secondary, independent source will have covered it. (Play Meter ostensibly should suffice, though I'm not familiar with its editorial backing.) This is how Wikipedia works. As for blaming other users, no one else "caused" the removal of text. That text should have never been there, and your quarrel only brought other uninvolved users (such as myself) to its attention. I hope everyone involved can edit productively from here on out. P.S. You can use the {{ping}} template to send notifications when an editor (like me) is not watching the page. czar 19:18, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Speaking for others, merger of this page with another would be an incredible disservice to truth and fact. Research shows that this team only has roots in another organiztion but has many many more years of history as its own organization than it does with Twin Galaxy. It existed 12 or 13 years originally and was only involved with Galaxy for 3 or 4 of those and is not associated with any way now.

I am happy and I'm sure others are happy to work to get this up to what you consider your standards but I would like to note that my expanion of the knowledge base contains link backs to numerous websites not only unrelated to the official organization website but many that are older than the current ownerships involvement and yet their history lines up.

If I understand right, Playmeter has been around for 40 years and not only covers the current team but also covered the original ones extensively way back when. I will leave that to the other editor that mentioned it because I do not know how to get my hands on copies. I believe it is an industry trade publication only. Theere is also the local newspaper that both of us have seen if that would suffice.

I was just inspired to get this right and help it out.71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

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