Talk:UAAP Season 83

Overhaul of standings tables

We've been using the current color shades for the longest time, but it does not correspond to how these should be used:

• Teams entering different rounds have the different colors
• Teams in the same round can be distinguished by shading

Here's the proposal to align with tournament articles elsewhere in Wikipedia:

All options

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Advance to the Finals
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the semifinals
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the stepladder round 2
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—	Advance to stepladder round 2
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-win in the semifinals
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—	Proceed to stepladder round 1
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Regular Final Four format

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the semifinals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-win in the semifinals
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Stepladder format, #2 twice to beat, best of three finals

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Advance to the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the stepladder round 2
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Proceed to stepladder round 1
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Stepladder format, #2 not twice to beat, best of three finals

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Advance to the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Advance to stepladder round 2
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Proceed to stepladder round 1
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Stepladder format, #2 and #1 twice to beat

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the stepladder round 2
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Proceed to stepladder round 1
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Stepladder format, #2 not twice to beat, #1 twice to beat

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Advance to stepladder round 2
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—	Proceed to stepladder round 1
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Old formats

Twice to beat Finals era

Pos	Team	W	L	PCT	GB	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-beat in the Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	—	—	Twice-to-win in the Finals
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	—	—
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	—	—
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	—	—
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	—	—
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	—	—
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	—	—

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2 or #4, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Pennant era

First round

Pos	Team	W	L	Pts	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	0	Advance to Finals
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	0
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	0
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	0
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	0
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	0
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	0
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	0

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #1, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Second round

Pos	Team	W	L	Pts	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	0	Guaranteed Finals berth playoff
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	0
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	0
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	0
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	0
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	0
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	0
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	0

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #1, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Overall standings

Pos	Team	W	L	Pts	Qualification
1	Adamson Soaring Falcons	0	0	0	Qualify to Finals berth playoff
2	Ateneo Blue Eagles	0	0	0	Guaranteed Finals berth playoff
3	De La Salle Green Archers	0	0	0	Advance to the Finals
4	FEU Tamaraws	0	0	0
5	NU Bulldogs	0	0	0
6	UE Red Warriors	0	0	0
7	UP Fighting Maroons	0	0	0
8	UST Growling Tigers	0	0	0

Source: ABS-CBN Sports
Rules for classification: 1) winning percentage; 2) if tied for #2, one-game playoff; 3) head-to-head record; 4) head-to-head point differential; 5) overall point differential

Discussion

Support per proposal. I think it would be worth to include table design for tournaments that ended with automatic champions or had no postseason, such as UAAP Season 56 men's basketball. – McVahl (talk) 07:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

The module allows you to do this. See 1950 FIFA World Cup final round. For tournaments that were not finished we can just ditch the qualifying column. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

If people would prefer green (or yellow) for the usual Final Four format, we can use that instead of blue. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

If we are to follow the colour consensus: Green should be used for the top-level positive event (promotion, qualification, advancing to next round), blue for the second-level positive events (promotion play-offs when direct promotion exists, play-offs when direct qualification exist, secondary continental tournament), red for bottom-level negative events (relegation) and yellow for other level events. In addition, lower level colours should be used when teams qualify for different rounds (with lower levels corresponding to entry in lower rounds [green1 first, then green2, etc].). I believe being in Final Four is already a "top-level positive event", hence it must use green colour (for regular format), mustn't it? – McVahl (talk) 10:39, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, for instances where reaching the semifinals is the final stage after the elimination round (like there aren't subsequent "elimination rounds" with a playoff bracket after that), green should be used. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:21, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Playoff brackets

Is anyone okay with exclusively using Template:4TeamBracket-RP for all regular Final Four format playoffs, and Template:4TeamBracket-RP-sweep-best of 3 final for stepladder playoffs, then decommissioning Template:4TeamBracket-RP-ko, Template:4TeamBracket-RP-1st, Template:4TeamBracket-RP-1st-3waytie, Template:5TeamBracket-RP-sweep, and Template:5TeamBracket-RP-T2nd-T4th? We'd just place the seeding playoffs prior to the bracket, and these are included in the footnotes for the team standings. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Neutral. It’s nice to visualize tiebreaker round results through brackets though. But seeding playoffs are omitted in some cases, for example in 2015 World TeamTennis season. – McVahl (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

These are wholesale omitted in most "bracket" presentations. See the 2018 Major League Baseball season where similar playoffs are denoted in the regular season standings. (Unlike the UAAP though, the playoff games count as one regular season game.) PBA brackets omit these too. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Depreciation of {{UAAPicon}} in schedule tables

These do not follow MOS:ACCESS, so we should be depreciating these in favor of acronyms. I guess no one's going to dispute these:

• Adamson: AdU
• Ateneo: AdMU
• La Salle: DLSU
• FEU
• NU
• UE
• UP
• UST

I saw the awful coding where are schools are all three-letter abbreviations, with monstrosities such as "DLS", "NUI", and "UEA" (LOL WTF!). We must not do that and rely on the principle of least astonishment to our readers. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:51, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, if there was a college sports equivalent of the much maligned "Line 2" (guess what that is!), it's this one. Whose idea was it to represent the "NU Bulldogs" as "NUI"?! These codes are hidden from plain sight, it's harder to clean this up than the aforementioned "Line 2". Howard the Duck (talk) 21:05, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

There ya go. The Module:PHL sports overall tally is dependent to Template:Medals table which, according to its documentation, supports three-letter code to make it work. – McVahl (talk) 05:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Do other sports leagues do this? AFAIK, the NBA doesn't, and screw ups such as this one, or fitting a round peg to a square hole, does more harm than good. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

...other sports league do which one? Medals table? Three-letter codes? If you mean the latter, La Liga season articles are using them from the outset. Module:PHL sports team/collegiate is fixed anyway to support those “ADMU” and “DLSU” thingo. However, we need to keep the three-letter codes for overall tally and medal tables for main reason I mentioned above. – McVahl (talk) 14:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Good for the La Liga. UAAP? LOL No. What is "UEA"? Other people are editing this; we shouldn't make it harder for everyone else. No one knows "NUI" corresponds to the school popularly known as "NU". Professional teams may be known by TLAs; another example are PBA teams, TV coverage shows full names instead of TLAs, and if they do, they do it sparingly (they used to). (This is not to say some teams are identifiable by their TLAs such as "SMB" and "ROS".) For our universities here, they are known by abbreviations from two (UP) to five letters (UPHSD). Sure, we can make up TLAs for entities where they are none, but for abbreviations people know by heart, please for the love of God, don't do that. Wikipedia must be editable by everyone, and if you do this, you make it harder for everyone else to do just that. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

“No one knows”? TLAs such as “NUI” and “UEA” are officially used by the UAAP itself, not something I invented. LOL. – McVahl (talk) 15:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

WP:OFFICIAL. The man on the street does not know what in God's name is "UEA", they might even ask you "Is that a new country?" I am surprised that you are insisting on this basic fact. Amazing. People should be able to edit articles with no difficulty. In Tagalog, di lang tayo-tayo ang nandito. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Again, this is like the "Line 3" brouhaha we have to contend with earlier this year:

"Government 'officially' uses (used?) "Line 3" to refer to the train line above EDSA, ergo, we'd use it consistently throughout Wikipedia without exception."

"But how about 'MRT-3'? More people know that instead of 'Line 3'."

"'MRT-3' is ambiguous. 'Line 3' for life!"

***facepalms*** Howard the Duck (talk) 15:44, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

LOL. My concern is, however, quoting myself: we need to keep the three-letter codes for overall tally and medal tables for main reason I mentioned above. I actually don’t mind which ones you prefer for other tables, e.g. standings, schedule tables. – McVahl (talk) 15:58, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

So? People would still be editing that. We serve both editors and readers. Editors would not know (at least readily) that "NUI" is not the National University of Ireland, and "UEA" is not the "University of East Anglia", at least people from UP sorta use "UPD". Even if they did figure out, they would still think "this whole thing is funny at the very least, and stupid at the very most". There's a reason when I created {{UAAPicon}} to use "Ateneo" and "La Salle" over "ADMU" and "DLSU"... now we have monstrosities such as "ADM" and "DLS". Other people have to edit articles easily. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:08, 28 December 2020 (UTC)