Talk:Ugric languages

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ugric languages article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Languages High‑importance

	Language portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LanguagesWikipedia:WikiProject LanguagesTemplate:WikiProject Languageslanguage articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hungary High‑importance

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Russia: Language & literature / Demographics & ethnography High‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the language and literature of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force.

recent edits bundle

My apologies for the blanket reversion, but correcting individual details one-by-one would not have been productive. Some particular points:

The idea of a common Ugric reduction of unstressed vowels is a fringe view at best, as far as I can tell; I've only seen it in some recent treatments of Hungarian historical phonology (and without reference to any Ob-Ugric or other Uralic evidence). Sammallahti (1988) explicitly retains a contrast *a/*ä : *ĭ for his framework of Proto-Ugric.
"ɜ" is not a distinct Proto-Uralic vowel, but simply a cover symbol for a vowel whose identity cannot be determined. *e and *i in unstressed syllables are the same vowel, with differing views on which should be reconstructed.
The idea of *s > *h > ∅ directly in Hungarian has indeed been proposed, but is a minority view and would need to be presented as such.

--Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 17:52, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cosmographia

I removed the claim that Piccolomini (later Pope Pius II) would have mentioned the connection between Ugric peoples in his Cosmographia (1458). Here's a German translation of what he wrote [from Günter Johannes Stipa (1990)]:

"Im Asiatischen Skythien, nicht weit vom Don, wohnen Völker, ungebildete Menschen, die Idolkult treiben. Diese hätten dieselbe Sprache wie die Ungarn, die in Pannonien wohnen." In Piccolomini 1614: 324 ist hinzugefügt "Sie werden Ungarn genannt.. Ihre Rede unterscheidet sich gar nicht von der, welche die jenseits des Ister [der Donau] Wohnenden gebrauchen. Sie nennen sich Verwandte ... "

It is possible that this refers more to Magna Hungaria instead of Ob-Ugrians, as Scythia is usually associated with a more southern location. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 10:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]