Talk:Varangians

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Term Variag[edit]

" are derived from Old Norse væringi, originally a compound of vár 'pledge' or 'faith', and gengi 'companion', thus meaning 'sworn companion', 'confederate'"

This is also discussioned. In old russian language there are many words, which are sound very near (veriazhiti, varezhka) with common sense "spoil, enemy" or "to prevent". The word "væringi" was described in sagas only in 11th century.

There is good description of variag question in russian wiki.

92.255.220.3 (talk) 18:20, 26 March 2017 (UTC)Yaromir

It was the Rurik Dynasty that ruled Kievan Rus', not the Varangians[edit]

It was the Rurik Dynasty of Varangian descent that ruled, not the "Varangians",

Sviatopolk I of Kiev's mother was a greek nun, and his father was Vladimir the Great of varangian extract. Starting from Sviatopolk I of Kiev, the purity of "varangian" blood was already diluted, so saying "varangians" ruled Kievan Rus' is much less accurate than saying "ruled by Rurik's descendants", which the article does state in the entry, rendering the earlier mention that "varangians ruled Kievan Rus'" unnecessary and invalid. Saying that Ruriks ruled Kievan Rus' also leads to lesser confusion with new readers, who aren't familiar well with the Kievan history yet, as they might not know right away that Rurik dynasty were of varangian descent and that is what is meant behind the phrase "varangians ruled Kievan Rus". Another point why it's best not to say the latter phrase, is that there were ordinary folk of varangian descent who diffused with other local Slavic people, so the use of plural "varangians" is best to be avoided. Vizakenjack (talk) 04:56, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

  • I am agree. "Varangians" are the name of a nation, so without clarification it looks as if one nation rules another, which is incorrect in the case of Kievan Rus. "Rurik Dynasty of Varangians" seems a good clarification for me.--Yellow Horror (talk) 07:16, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Glad, the obvious is apparent here. Unfortunately, when I first edited the entry, my edit got reverted], hopefully whoever reverted won't do it again, otherwise I'd have to put this issue up on the admin's noticeboard. Vizakenjack (talk) 02:38, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
An account created only to help you here, with no other edits of any kind. Credible? Umm, no. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 10:35, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Argue facts, not personalities.--Yellow Horror (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Thomas.W, do you have access to CheckUser tool to test for multiple accounts, as you claim I have here in order to "help me"? If not, then why, without any evidence of me creating a separate account, would you assume that I'd create an additional account to "help" myself with this matter? When I first edited the entry, I provided a hefty explanation for my edit, which you, btw didn't address. If I'm providing hefty explanations for my edit and ready to discuss the matter, and someone happens to agree with those arguments, is it surprising given that you provided none at this talkpage? Vizakenjack (talk) 20:44, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
After my 2nd edit, I politely wrote in the summary of my edit to please discuss the matter on this talkpage, yet instead of discussing it on this talkpage you're accusing me and another user of having fake accounts to help us win this dispute? Please don't do it, and instead address the valid arguments, such as the fact that it was the Rurik dynasty that ruled over the Kievan Rus' and not the entire group of people called "Varangians". If you have the evidence to prove otherwise, can you present it to us? Vizakenjack (talk) 20:42, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Read this and other articles here about the Varangians and the Rus', and please note that the anti-Normanist theories have been discarded as being fringe. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 21:12, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Where you see "anti-Normanist theory" in the statement, that one dynasty of Varganian breed (namely "Rurik dynasty") ruled the Kievan Rus, not all the Varganians?--Yellow Horror (talk) 07:02, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and also read WP:DUCK. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 21:17, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
The second time I ask you to avoid personal attacks in the discussion.--Yellow Horror (talk) 07:02, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Few significant traces of Varangian influence can be discovered in Russian law, political institutions, social organizations, religious beliefs, language, or literature. This is why V. Ya. Petrukhin thinks different according to Gustav von Ewers. The latter argued that Russian Varyag could not be translated as a Varangian. Varyags, including Scandinavian Varangians, were armed merchants of different ethnic origin, including Varangians, but the majority of them, especially in Kiev, were Slavs and other Khazar subordinates. This is why their rulers had their own rota system, i. e. a specific heritage line, known only to Khazars and Hungarians and never applied by Scandinavians. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatima065 (talkcontribs) 15:24, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ [http://www.hagahan-lib.ru/library/etnokonfessionalnie-otnosheniya6.html Восточные славяне, аланы и хазары: дискуссии в отечественной историографии 20-х гг. XX — нач. XXI вв.