Talk:Vitaliy Khomutynnik

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Changes to lead

Dlimali has made several changes to the lead that have been reverted. Please find consensus here before making further changes to the lead. Nemov (talk) 15:05, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead change

The leaad doesn't adhere to BLP guides. He is not an oligarch (in Ukraine there are Pinchuk, Akhmetov, Kolomoyskyi and maybe Poroshenko - who are regarded as oligarchs and have billions of money and influence). also, there is a law in Ukraine about oligarchs which ruined the oligarch grip over the country and Akhmetov now is not an oligarch as he closed his media business. Here I shortly explained. TemPot Pee (talk) 10:06, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are several independent sources that describe him as an oligarch. — Czello 10:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

no, those sources are not general and doesn't correspond to the public opinion. maybe on some level he was close to be named as oligarch but with no media and billions of $ he is not such at least anymore. TemPot Pee (talk) 10:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whether they correspond to public opinion doesn't matter - they're determined to be reliable (although you could always raise this at WP:RSN if you think they're not) so we go by what they say. — Czello 10:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

it's not the main characteristic (even if you believe he is oligarch) for the subject of the article. You rely on primary sources which are not so good on Wikipedia. TemPot Pee (talk) 10:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They don't at all appear to be primary sources (if you're referring to the "oligarch" citation, that is) — Czello 10:22, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I put oligarch in the wealth section as it is particular opinion of academics TemPot Pee (talk) 10:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop edit warring while this discussion is ongoing. The lead should reflect the body of the article, and oligarch is already mentioned there.

Can you be clearer about the inconsistency around his membership of the political party? I can't see where exactly it says he's in Vidrodzheniya. Is this the Renaissance Party? — Czello 10:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Czello first, about oligarch. I checked the sources. One in VOX - doesn't name him oligarhch at ll. another one just says: Boiko et al have been joined by oligarchs in parliament’s ‘Renaissance’ and ‘Will of the People’ factions, such as Vitaliy Khomutynnik, who is close to Ihor Kolomoisky. The first source says: Table 1: Ukrainian oligarchic groups in 2002–2016 (not in 2023). TemPot Pee (talk) 10:31, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Czello so, I mean those sources are not deep enough that is why I put them in Wealth and added: journalsit and academics describe him as oligarch. But it is not the same as "He was in party DDD in 2000 year". the facts are facts, and opinions are opinions. TemPot Pee (talk) 10:33, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Czello I checked the Vidrodzhenyya party and found that he is not its head. Victor Bondar (I don't know that guy either) is the party leader. https://vidrodzhennya.org.ua/ and his photo is everywhere on the website TemPot Pee (talk) 10:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vidrodzhennya means Renaissance in English, yes, Revival (Ukraine) here is another name and its English Wikipedia which states that Victor Bondar is its head. by the way, I found his wikipedia page: Viktor Bondar TemPot Pee (talk) 10:37, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The statement about him being leader seems to either 1) be obsolete or 2) only refers to the parliamentary party (per the source on the party article). Let's assume it's the former - you've deleted it entirely. Can you self-revert but add that he's former leader? — Czello 10:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will add it not. give me a few minutes TemPot Pee (talk) 10:45, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Czello He was the head of the Revival Party, a political party in Ukraine, established in its current form in June 2015.^[1]^[2]

added this in Political career TemPot Pee (talk) 10:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I've self-reverted the WP:EWN post as I can see you've justified the political inconsistency and I appreciate you've compromised on the oligarch sections. Just a note, et al isn't a spelling error. — Czello 11:01, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thanks! TemPot Pee (talk) 12:09, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Czello @TemPot Pee I reverted last edit as the anonoym did not read talk page and did violation 2A02:A46F:165C:1:1FC:F295:29BC:F14F (talk) 15:09, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Висхідна зірка української олігархії | Новое Время". June 17, 2019. Archived from the original on June 17, 2019. Retrieved November 21, 2022.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)
^ "Партія «Відродження»". May 3, 2021. Archived from the original on May 3, 2021. Retrieved November 21, 2022.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

What I think should be changed: Remove the sentence "He is a former head of the Renaissance Party, a pro-Russia political party." Should be rephrased to "He is a former politician, was a head of parliamentary group Renaissance".
Why it should be changed: Vitaliy Khomutynnik has never been a head of any political party and the Renaissance Party as well.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

https://interfax.com.ua/news/political/460387.html https://hromadske.ua/posts/holova-deputatskoi-hrupy-vidrodzhennia-khomutynnik-zalyshyv-posadu https://minjust.gov.ua/m/4561

KaterynaS (talk) 09:04, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I think should be changed: Relocate the sentence "During his tenure, Khomutynnik has been accused of evading taxes and corruption." to the "Political career" and add "In the result of the investigation of the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine, no violations were found, the case was closed".
Why it should be changed: The results of investigation should be added.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2017/12/15/7165644/

https://www.rbc.ua/ukr/news/ugolovnoe-proizvodstvo-deklaratsiyam-homutynnika-1509963482.html

KaterynaS (talk) 09:04, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I think should be changed: Remove "Khomutynnik being a business partner of oligarch Dmitry Firtash, who is wanted by the US federal government".
Why it should be changed: It is unsourced.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): https://blogs.korrespondent.net/blog/politics/4563316/

Marking as addressed since it appears someone else has implemented these changes. Spencer^T•C 18:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. [see below]

What I think should be changed: Delete the phrase "or gas extraction company JKX Oil & Gas" from sentence "Today, in the investment fund portfolio not only private equity companies but also shareholdings in public companies, such as biggest Ukrainian agricultural holding Kernel Holding or gas extraction company JKX Oil & Gas".
Why it should be changed: Mentioned information is old. Cascade Investment Fund sold gas extraction company JKX Oil & Gas in 2020.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): https://inventure.com.ua/news/ukraine/vitalij-homutynnik-prodal-1997percent-neftegazovoj-kompanii-jkx-aleksandru-shniru

KaterynaS (talk) 10:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I think should be changed: Change the phrase "Dmitry Firtash's" to "Vassili Tolstunov" in the sentence "In 2019, Khomutynnik acquired a stake in Dmitry Firtash's Dresdenco Investments, after an approval by Antimonopoly Committee of Ukraine".
Why it should be changed: Vassili Tolstunov is a real stakeholder at Dresdenco Investments LTD.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): https://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE394642

https://i-cyprus.com/company/551942

KaterynaS (talk) 10:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I think should be changed: Add the time period "till 2021" in the sentence "Khomutynnik is the owner of a Cyprus-domiciled offshore company, Cacique Limited, that operated till 2021 subsidiary companies in Ukraine, including Nyva LLC, Agrosvit PAE, PE Chervonyans`ki agrarian investments, PE Koropski agrarian investments, PE Sosnyts`ki agrarni investytsii, and PE Zasullya-5".
Why it should be changed: Mentioned companies were sold in 2021.
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): https://latifundist.com/ru/novosti/55934-amku-predostavil-razreshenie-alfa-kapitalu-na-priobretenie-agrokompanij-homutynnika

https://biz.liga.net/ekonomika/nedvizhimost/novosti/homutynnik-nashel-pokupatelya-dlya-svoego-agrobiznesa

KaterynaS (talk) 10:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Partly done: I did not replace "Dmitry Firtash" with "Vassili Tolstunov" because the latter is not mentioned in the source that's already used; I've removed the name instead. Regarding the third request, I could not verify the first citation, and the second citation does not explicitly support that Khomutynnik was owner "until 2021". Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 17:14, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

COI tag (July 2023)

After blocking a string of editors who were identified as Sockpuppet, who made mass deletions and whitewashing of the article. Further deletions began. Bexaendos (talk) 19:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is not about deleting (where this wording comes from?) but about finalizing the article – at least about updating it. Jenes (talk) 18:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't seen any updates, just deletion of information I stress that only negative information is subject to deletion.--Bexaendos (talk) 18:52, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

COI tag (June 2024)

In the past, the article has led to a string of [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/KaterynaS/Archive |editors being blocked for being biased on the subject]]. Apparently a new editor has stepped in to update and promote the article under the name Jenes. Bexaendos (talk) 17:16, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t edit separate sections, but update (create) pages that I wrote (or substantially revised) in the Ukrainian section (the main language section for me is Ukrainian). Before my edition this page looked like a list of separate facts and I built a structured text from these facts and wrote an article. Jenes (talk) 08:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral format?

What is the difference between the versions? Rearrangement of text blocks (of course this is a matter of taste, but why it was necessary to do it in a newly rewritten article?) and addition of facts that do not stand the test of time, and which, according to this logic, were removed from the updated version. It is about the Inauguration of Donald Trump, which took place in 2017. If Bexaendos user considers this fact significant for the biography, then perhaps it would be worthwhile to start a separate section with a list of all the protocol events in which Khomutynnik participated. Or, at least, he should also edit the corresponding Inauguration of Donald Trump article and start with the formation of a complete list of the participants of the ceremony (if the editors consider the addition of such names appropriate). Jenes (talk) 08:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have made a positive improvement to the article in all language versions, as well as removed all controversies that are well referenced. I am more than sure that there is a WP:COI to this article, which is demonstrated from the past changes. Please avoid edits of this nature as it is not in line with wikipedia policies! Bexaendos (talk) 13:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is something wrong! I wrote a whole article from separate sentences. I put the translations in several language sections. Which well referenced ones are you talking about that make the article weaker? Jenes (talk) 20:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ Bexaendos, please explain your corrections. You make value judgments in the description of the article (a mention in Die Zeit is definitely not enough to recognize a person as corrupt). You insert information about completely different people (write about the wealth of oligarchs on their pages). All this at least requires discussion and argumentation. Otherwise, such editing should be considered destructive and rolled back. Jenes (talk) 09:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I made a string of explanations, which you are trying to dodge your responsibility (you say that you have updated the article, but doing an analysis it is clear that you have deleted a string of information that I assume the client asked for). The given article has a string of WP:COI in the past, after which you make the same identical changes to improve the image of the article.

All I added to the article in the last modification was restored information from the past that was similarly removed by some paid editors! Note that all the added information is well referenced and written in a neutral form. Bexaendos (talk) 13:56, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bexaendos, please tag when you reply so that your actions are reflected. It is still necessary to find out who is asking whom and for what. You removed from the introductory part the person's image, and replaced it with the evaluated judgment of one specific journalist. And all with links to sources. Explain your actions. Jenes (talk) 21:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bexaendos, а convenient position is not to respond. Sorry, but the page with evaluation judgments cannot remain. The lead should be factual and balanced. Jenes (talk) 09:14, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JenesI am not obliged to answer your messages, because I have explained everything. And I have not changed my position that you have a WP:COI on this article. However I prefer to contribute to wikipedia to make it better, than to waste my time on pointless discussions. Bexaendos (talk) 12:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the evaluative judgment from the former member of the Ukrainian parliament, and now civil servant Serhiy Leshchenko. This is his personal newspaper column, not the Zeit article. In addition, Serhiy Leshchenko is known in Ukraine for numerous corruption scandals [1] [2] [3]. --Yakudza (talk) 13:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This doesn't change the fact that he is a professional investigative journalist and Zeit editorial accepted the article. It is not a WP:RSSELF (as this is not his personal site or book) so stop mislabeling the article. It is fine to add with attribution that Leshchenko wrote this. Veldsenk (talk) 11:11, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Political meetings

Bexaendos, I hope for your sincere intentions to improve the work of Wikipedia, and in particular this page. The logic of my correction lies in the fact that Khomuninynyk's political career included far more than one meeting with high-ranking officials. The previous article indicated the selectivity of such meetings, which is not true. That is why I have selected proven and reliable facts about meetings and rewritten this paragraph. Please, and justify your persistent attempt to cancel this edit. Jenes (talk) 12:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What you're doing is called "whitewashing" the article. Delete a well-referenced paragraph and add instead another paragraph that doesn't make any sense (because we can add information about work visits and meetings over and over again). I want to be polite to you and not to offend you, but once you have an interest in the article, please avoid editing, because you risk being blocked! Bexaendos (talk) 16:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bexaendos, please refrain from making corrections to the article until a consensus is reached in the discussion. Your actions bear the signs of an уdit warring. And your attempt to concentrate instead of panning raises separate questions about the purpose of your actions. A person during his political term holds not one meeting, but a whole series of them. Please explain the reasons why you are trying to roll them back again and again. Jenes (talk) 14:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[auto22-1] "Висхідна зірка української олігархії | Новое Время". June 17, 2019. Archived from the original on June 17, 2019. Retrieved November 21, 2022.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)

[2] "Партія «Відродження»". May 3, 2021. Archived from the original on May 3, 2021. Retrieved November 21, 2022.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)

[1]

[2]