Talk:Westwind 24

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Trailerable, but not a trailer sailer in the real world

This article claims that the Westwind is a trailer sailer. The definition in trailer sailer is vague, but implies that the boat should be relatively easy to get to the ramp and rig for a day trip. While the Westwind is legally trailerable (as is my garden shed), the heavy ballast requires a truck, and the mast can only be put up with a crane since it lacks any pin on the step. Without any WP:VERIFY of widespread use as such, the claim is sythensis and WP:OR. Cornellier (talk) 16:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, not WP:SYNTHESIS or WP:OR, but directly what the WP:RS says and that is what we go by on Wikipedia. The Henkel ref cited is specifically a book describing only trailerable sailboats, as the book's introduction and each entry specifies. He lists the Westwind 24's fully-loaded trailering weight as 6700 lbs. - Ahunt (talk) 21:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I wasn't clear because you seem to ignore the point being made. Yes, it's "trailerable". Anything less than 8ft wide is trailerable. The point is whether it's a trailer sailer. At 6700lb and no way to put up the mast it's far from a typical trailer sailer. --Cornellier (talk) 03:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that on Wikipedia we do not give weight to the opinions of editors on subjects, we are bound by what reliable sources say and in this case Henkel has many pages in the introduction of his book explaining all the criteria for how he included the boats in his volume as trailerable, cruising sailboats. He carefully lists tables of towing vehicles by make and model and calculations for towing weight and much more. It is a very extensive analysis. Henkel does not, however, use the specific term "trailer sailer" in his book. If your issue is the distinction between the relatively well-defined term "trailerable" and the not-well-defined term "trailer sailer", would delinking trailer sailer in this article suffice? I have not seen any ref that talks about the ease or difficulty of raising the mast on this boat. Certainly Henkel makes no pronouncement on it. Where does that information come from? - Ahunt (talk) 12:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your idea of delinking "trailerable" from trailer sailer. The information about mast raising is from personal experience (not opinion), and is offered per WP:BLUESKY. This is also the source of the statement that the "motor is mounted in a well in the lazarette" to which you have added a reference. Is this information in the referenced work? --Cornellier (talk) 14:36, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I will delink that term, if that resolves your concerns. As you noted it is ill-defined anyway. Umm, detailed information on installed boat hardware, from personal experience, not cited to a ref, is not WP:BLUESKY, it is WP:OR. Yes, Henkel's page on the boat specifically shows an outboard motor in a stern lazarette well, which is why I shifted the refs to cover it and described that in my edit summary. If left unsupported, there was a risk that another editor would tag it or remove it as per WP:PROVEIT. - Ahunt (talk) 14:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]