Talk:Young Americans

Craig DeCamps

Here is a source that says that Craig DeCamps designed the album cover. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:17, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

In the Artwork section, I used that ref to credit DeCamps for the design. David notMD (talk) 11:08, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

David notMD, I find it odd that literally none of the biographers mention this individual. – zmbro _(talk) 13:05, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I think everyone was using cocaine back then. Anyway, here is another ref crediting DeCamps: https://www.classicrockhistory.com/top-10-david-bowie-album-covers/ A search on his name confirms he did many album covers and book covers. David notMD (talk) 15:30, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

David notMD, that is definitely true but still surprising since all of the biographies were written after 1990. But Classic Rock History I can accept as reliable so thank you. – zmbro _(talk) 16:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Young Americans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Realmaxxver (talk · contribs) 11:59, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Starting a review soon. Realmaxxver (talk) 11:59, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Realmaxxver Could we move this along please? – zmbro _(talk) 14:35, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Overall

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

Lead

• "Commentators have described the record as blue-eyed soul, while Bowie himself labelled the album's sound "plastic soul"." → "Commentators have described the record as blue-eyed soul, although Bowie himself labelled the album's sound as "plastic soul". "

• Done

• "After the initial sessions, the tour continued, with the setlist and design changed due to the influence of the new material recorded; this portion of the tour has been labeled the Soul tour." replace the semi colon with a full stop.

• Done

Background

• "David Bowie's eighth studio album Diamond Dogs (1974) was his final album in the glam rock genre.[1] Biographer David Buckley writes: "In the sort of move which would come to define his career, Bowie jumped the glam-rock ship just in time, before it drifted into a blank parody of itself".[2]" → "David Bowie's eighth studio album Diamond Dogs (1974) was his final album in the glam rock genre,[1] which Biographer David Buckley wrote: "In the sort of move which would come to define his career, Bowie jumped the glam-rock ship just in time, before it drifted into a blank parody of itself".[2]"

• Partially reworded

• "Although Alomar had never heard of Bowie when they met, they connected immediately and formed a working relationship that would last almost 15 years.[11]" swap the arrangement of "connected immediately"

• Done

Recording

"At Alomar's suggestion, Bowie hired former drummer of Sly and the Family Stone, Andy Newmark and bassist Willie Weeks of the Isley Brothers to replace Tony Newman and Herbie Flowers, respectively." → "At Alomar's suggestion, Bowie hired former drummer of Sly and the Family Stone, Andy Newmark to replace Tony Newman, and bassist Willie Weeks of the Isley Brothers to replace Herbie Flowers."

• Done

Philadelphia sessions

"Demo work began at Sigma Sound on 8 August 1974, while official work commenced on 11 August upon Visconti's arrival.[17]" → "Demo work began at Sigma Sound on 8 August 1974, but official work commenced three days later upon Visconti's arrival.[17]"

• Done

• "During this time, Bowie's cocaine addiction heightened at a rapid pace, as such he stayed up day and night recording while the band slept." → "During this time, Bowie's cocaine addiction heightened at a rapid pace, and as a result, he stayed up day and night recording while the band slept."

• Done

New York sessions

"Following the conclusion of the second half of the Diamond Dogs tour in December (referred to as the Soul tour)" I feel like it would be more easier to just say "Following the conclusion of the Soul tour in December".

• Since "the second half of the Diamond Dogs tour" is said earlier I moved "(referred to as the Soul tour)" up to that and changed here to just "the Sooul tour" – zmbro _(talk) 18:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

"At this point, Bowie told Disc the title would be Fascination (named after the newly recorded track); "John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)" was still in the track-listing but the two new tracks replacing "Who Can I Be Now?" and "Somebody Up There Likes Me".[19]" - "replacing" should be in past tense (replaced); "At this point, Bowie told Disc the title would be Fascination (named after the newly recorded track). "John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)" was still in the track-listing, but the two new tracks replaced "Who Can I Be Now?" and "Somebody Up There Likes Me".[19]"

• Done

"Bowie contacted Visconti about the collaborations two weeks after Visconti finished mixing." I feel like a date should be included here (If a date was specified in the source).

• Cleared that up. – zmbro _(talk) 18:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Songs

• "Along with blue-eyed soul, the music on Young Americans has been described as R&B and Philadelphia soul.[25][26] Bowie himself labeled the sound of the album as "plastic soul", describing it as "the squashed remains of ethnic music as it survives in the age of Muzak rock, written and sung by a white limey".[27]" I feel like this could be a single sentence; "Along with blue-eyed soul, the music on Young Americans has been described as R&B and Philadelphia soul,[25][26] but Bowie himself labeled the sound of the album as "plastic soul", describing it as "the squashed remains of ethnic music as it survives in the age of Muzak rock, written and sung by a white limey".[27]"

• Changed to 'while' – zmbro _(talk) 17:32, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Side one

• "O'Leary cites "Win" as the track on Young Americans that mostly foreshadows Bowie's direction on Station to Station (1976).[7]" I think it might be important to note that "Station to Station" was Bowie's next album

• Done

Side two

• "His cover has been maligned by critics and biographers,[26][7][43]" the numbering of the sources should be "[7][26][43]"

• Fixed

• "After Lulu's version of "Take It in Right" failed to come to fruition, Bowie rerecorded it as "Can You Hear Me?" " I think this could be reworded to "After Lulu's version of "Take It in Right" failed to come to fruition, Bowie rerecorded it under "Can You Hear Me?" "

• Changed to "under the title" and just saying under makes no sense

• "In 1975 Bowie stated that the song was "written for somebody" but declined to disclose who; his biographers agree that it was most likely for Cherry.[7][44][45]" Was this statement made on the albums release, or was this made later in the year?

• Isn't specified

Outtakes

• "Over its runtime, it builds to a what Pegg calls a "gospel-choir climax".[49]" remove the first "a"; "Over its runtime, it builds to what Pegg calls a "gospel-choir climax".[49]"

• Done

• ""John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)" is a radical seven-minute funk and disco reworking of Bowie's 1972 glam rock single "John, I'm Only Dancing"." "John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)" is linked here, but is first mentioned at the Philadelphia sessions section "a rerecording of "John, I'm Only Dancing" (titled "John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)")," and should be linked there.

• Done

Release and promotion

• "For the album cover artwork, Bowie initially wanted to commission Norman Rockwell to create a painting but retracted the offer when he heard that Rockwell would need at least six months to do the job." Does the source specify if the painting was a portrait?

• Yes it does – zmbro _(talk) 00:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

• "Directed by Alan Yentob and broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 26 January 1975," Pretty sure "broadcast" should be past-tense

• According to Merriam-Webster it already is – zmbro _(talk) 00:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Legacy

• "Buckley considers Young Americans to be one of Bowie's most influential records. He writes that it brought fans of both glam rock and soul together in the wake of the disco era.[63]" could be merged into "Buckley considers Young Americans to be one of Bowie's most influential records, and writes that it brought fans of both glam rock and soul together in the wake of the disco era.[63]"

• Done

• "Spitz writes that Young Americans was also Bowie's first album in three years to not feature Ziggy Stardust, but rather Bowie himself.[29]" I suggest remove the "rather", seems a bit redundant

• Done

• "Despite the overall mixed reception, Young Americans was voted Bowie's ninth best album in a 2013 readers' poll for Rolling Stone. The magazine argued that its style shift helped introduce Bowie to a wider audience.[91] NME ranked the album at number 175 in its list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time in 2013.[92]" change to "Despite the overall mixed reception, Young Americans was voted Bowie's ninth best album in a 2013 readers' poll for Rolling Stone. The magazine argued that its style shift helped introduce Bowie to a wider audience.[91] That same year, NME ranked the album at number 175 in its list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time.[92]"

• Done

Reissues

• "The album was first released on CD by RCA in 1984" a better word for first could be "originally"

• Done

• "In 2016, the album was remastered for the Who Can I Be Now? (1974–1976) box set; the set also includes an earlier, rawer-sounding draft of the album, titled The Gouster.[98]" → "In 2016, the album was remastered for the Who Can I Be Now? (1974–1976) box set, which also includes an earlier, rawer-sounding draft of the album, titled The Gouster.[98]"

• Done

Copyvio comments

I would like to say, the copyvio does not look the best. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:22, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

It looks like that 64% one uses reviews word for word that this article uses so it's not stealing from that. The only thing taken from that is the DeCamps thing. The one below it is a German version of the English one. – zmbro _(talk) 00:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Okay. passing now. Realmaxxver (talk) 17:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Luther-vandross-19881005.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:53, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Philly soul

Nintendo193 Kkollaps Both of you please discuss the matter here. You're currently engaged in an edit war. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I was under the impression you're not supposed to add unsourced content to Wiki, the other editor continues to do so, I don't have time for some protracted debate about it. They have repeatedly admitted to adding the genre because it was an "influence" which is not what the infobox is for. There are currently no sources cited labeling the album an example of Philly soul. Kkollaps (talk) 16:49, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

You can't obviously. I think the editor is wrong is saying that just because Bowie was influenced by the genre means it is a part of the genre itself, because that's not always the case. The article currently cites Douglas Wolk at Pitchfork here for Philly soul. He says: "Young Americans represented David Bowie's dive into soul music, particularly Philly Soul," but at the same time says: "You couldn't mistake it for an actual Philly soul record." So there are conflicting viewpoints for sure in the cited source. If there was another source that could help verify YA as philly soul I say we could have it. But for now it might be best to not have it in the infobox. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 18:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

The “Unknown Singer”

The singer in the photo with Luther who is marked as "unknown" is Diana Ross. On the closing night of the "Return to Love" tour in 2000, Luther joined Diana onstage and they performed a duet of her song "The Best Years of My Life". Silkelectric (talk) 03:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Plz read the caption closer. It is referring to Vandross himself, who was an unknown singer at the time of recording the album. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Actor Bob Geldof

I don't want to change it without knowing whether the Pegg source describes him as a singer, but I do think singer is a better descriptor for Geldof than actor.--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 15:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)