Talk:William of Conches

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group.

Philosophy: Philosophers / Medieval Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Philosophers
	Medieval philosophy

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sources for future article expansion

These were previously listed in the editions section

Lemay, Helen Rodnite (ed.), Glosae super Macrobium [Glosses on Macrobius] (in Latin), Stony Brook: SUNY Press, forthcoming.
Caiazzo, Irene (ed.), Glosae super Priscianum [Glosses on Priscian] (in Latin), Paris: CRNS, forthcoming.

It wasn't listed but apparently P. Edward Dutton has claimed to be working on an edition of the De Philosophia Mundi that will clearly distinguish the changes between William's own two editions. Kindly include these once they're actually published, available, and reviewed. — LlywelynII 22:29, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's a copy of Prof. McInerny's History of Western Philosophy hosted at UND that's still up on the Internet Archive

McInerny, Ralph, "The School of Chartres", A History of Western Philosophy, William of Conches (c. 1080 – c. 1184), Notre Dame: University of Notre Dame Press, Vol. II, Pt. III, Ch. IV, §D.

It has the older DOB and a nonstandard DOD but very lucid elaborations of William's ideas on pedagogy and a semipantheistic World Soul that should be included briefly here and at greater length if/when the De Philosophia Mundi and Dragmaticon are split off into their own articles. For the latter, there's much more at Ferrara, op. cit. There's also more in Adamson & the body and appendices of R. Lane Poole, op. cit., as well. (I had actually added it but a laptop glitch ate that so... bleh... I'll leave it to others to work back in as they have time.) — LlywelynII 04:10, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Also in Bede"

The article previously claimed

De Philosophia Mundi is edited under the name of Bede in Patrologia Latina, Vol. 90, and under the name of Honorius Augustodunensis in Vol. 172.

and that's been copied to a number of other sites on the internet and appeared in some published works. Eh, doesn't seem to be accurate.

Migne, Jacques Paul, ed. (1850), Saeculum VIII Annus 730 Venerabilis Bedae Anglosaxonis Presbyteri Opera Omnia... [8th Century Year 730: The Complete Works of the Venerable Bede, Anglo-Saxon Priest...], Vol. I, Patrologia Latina [Latin Patrology], Vol. 90 (in Latin), Paris: Ateliers Catholiques.

I haven't read through the full volume (let alone the other 4 devoted to Bede) but cursory searching doesn't produce anything titled De Philosophia Mundi or (at least as scanned) producing the same text as the other PL edition. Possibly it was another work? or a partial version? — LlywelynII 14:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edition, under a different title, of the De philosophia mundi (albeit somewhat inferior to that in vol. 172) begins at col. 1127 of the volume you've linked above. By the way, I disagree with your reversion of most (or all?) of my changes to your edits in the article, such as restoring title case for the titles of Latin works. Perhaps we can discuss that sometime and get input from other interested editors—if any such exist. Deor (talk) 15:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summary already covered most of it but good on you for not edit warring over it.

Regarding caps, some journals and university profs have a house style to always treat Latin like a continental language. As far as I know Wiki doesn't. wp:latin doesn't seem to have a style guide and there's no Latin version of mos:frenchcaps. As is, the overarching guide is to follow the sources which are, on this, inconsistent. (Britannica tellingly so in the space of a single blurb of an article.) For this guy, most of what I'm looking at has English-style caps and, this being the English wiki, I personally think we should be defaulting to English caps in mixed environments anyway. If that really irks you, the more helpful place to bring it up would be that Latin project. If they actually decide, though, that'll be a whole lot of edits and page moves across the whole project.

Most of the other stuff is similarly well considered but on the balance slightly off. Most sources do just call this guy "French" but that seems inaccurate. He was born in Normandy, considered himself notably Norman in his own words, ran to Anjou's new Duke of Normandy when the French clerics smelled blood in the water (/started throwing chum at him). I don't think that specifically needs sourcing more than what's already there, but the cite for him calling himself Norman is in Ferrara p. 5 ("prologue to Book 6 of the Dragmaticon"). That's obviously once it's politically convenient for him to be Norman instead of just French, but that's the point. He was notably both, which is why the lead had it.

For anything bright line, yeah, just fix it. For all the judgment call/personal preference stuff, usually it's most helpful to just go along with whoever's doing more work. If you pull a bunch of Oxford and Cambridge resources and expand the article so I don't have to, yeah, reformat it at your pleasure xD Till then, yeah, there shouldn't be anything I'm putting up that isn't helpful for some WP:READERs. Linking bishop and diocese of Chartres isn't actually WP:OVERLINK the way, e.g., philosopher or doctor actually would be. Someone reading about this guy might want to check out what was going on in Paris in the 1200s. Etc. etc. — LlywelynII 05:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]