Talk:Yuko Ichihara

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New edits[edit]

Some of the new edits have some useful information but really poor English grammar. I made a few edits to it but a few things are just off somehow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Hopcroft (talk • contribs) 04:53, August 21, 2006 (UTC)

Gohu Drug Vase[edit]

I watched a particular fan subbed episode..... She says she took it from a shrine. I need to read the Manga anagin to verify. The Vase was stolen froma shrine in the Legal Drug manag storyline... when their assingment was supposedly to " retrieve it" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.209.206.1 (talk) 21:54, August 23, 2006 (UTC)

Maru and Moro[edit]

I was reading Yuko's profile and something does not add up however im not goping to take it down. The only times I saw Maru and Moro interact with Yuko's clients are the non Human ones. But they never show themselves to Human clients Also are there any basis that they were REALLY created by Yuko? or Clow?

Fan speculations are also arsing in some boards they may be former clients of Yuko... possible those that passed away or gave thier life as a wish? and became puppets. Or they are dolls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.209.206.1 (talk) 21:59, August 23, 2006 (UTC)

Trivia: (Save for Watanuki) Yuko had only female customers?[edit]

I suppose that this is sort of true up to a certain point in the manga, as I've yet to watch the anime. But shouldn't Domeki count as a customer, considering a certain event later on in the manga regarding Watanuki? True, we do not see (in the manga) Domeki wander in like Watanuki and the other (female) customers, but he still did a deal with Yuko. Thus, I suggest changing this to include both Watanuki and Domeki as the only male customers. Ultatri 05:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Three days, no objections - I will be including Domeki as Yuko's other male customer (see Vol 10, Chapter 11, or simply chapter 119). Admittedly , I've not watched the Anime, so if Domeki's a customer only in the manga so far, please feel free to edit the article and note here on the talk page.Ultatri 18:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've also edited the line for coherence.Ultatri 18:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it has occured to me that beyond those two, a number of other characters that were customers are also not female (Syaoran, tengu-karasu, etc). Therefore, it would be better if we either listed all of her customers thus far, or (as I would prefer) just delete this trivia bit.Ultatri 18:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
13 days, no yays/nays - I've deleted the line in particular. Refer to preceding note on reason for deletion.Ultatri 15:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested Move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move. The arguments presented by the first two opposers are not reasonable as redirects very effectively solve the problem of "people will not use diacritics when typing in the name in the search box".--Húsönd 03:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]


from Yuko Ichihara to Yūko Ichihara. There actually is a difference here, in more plain romanization "Yuko" and "Yuuko". The original article title of "Yuko" is a misspelling, because her name is actually Yūko (Yuuko). The rest of the wikipedia article practically confirms it -- only the article title is inconsistent -- Te2rx 10:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose People will not use diacritics when typing in the name in the search box - you wouldn't find Tokyo at Tōkyō. Number 57 11:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please only speak for yourself. I use macrons when searching. Tokyo is an unfortunate situation. At least a redirect exists for Tōkyō. Bendono 23:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the proposer. —Nightstallion (?) 12:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Number 57's reasoning. I think renaming would just making linking to this article and searching for it excessively complicated. Katsuhagi 15:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Redirects can and should exist to assist in directing to the proper spelling. Please refer to WP:MOS-JA#Article_titles. Bendono 23:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:MOS-JA#Article_titles. Bendono 23:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Question. This series is also published in English. How is her name written in the English editions? Dekimasuよ! 03:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In the Del Rey version it's "Yûko" though it's been spelled as "Yuuko" on their website and "Yuko" on the back of the book, so even the "official" source isn't consistent. Katsuhagi 10:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. I like consistency, but to list a fictional character under a name that no one uses for her in English seems to me to be overly prescriptive. Dekimasuよ! 13:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So which would you use: "Yûko", "Yuko", or "Yuuko"? And why? All three are used inconsistently by Del Rey. The simplest and most neutral option is to go back to the original (ゆうこ) and transcribe it (Yūko). That should be the default. Bendono 13:56, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Considering the information Katsuhagi gives us below, the "official" translator used "Yûko" and seems to have been consistent about it. The references to "Yuko" and "Yuuko" are unlikely to have been done by someone who was involved in the actual process of translation. That was also the previous location of this article. If pressed, I'd say that that would make the most sense to me. Dekimasuよ! 14:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would like consistency with our guidelines, but as long as it's not "Yuko" (which is an entirely different name), I can accept it. I still think we should favor our own guidelines and default to a neutral romanization based on the original. It would make things consistent and also avoid most of these endless debates. Bendono 14:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Please review WP:MOS-JA which deals with these issues. Bendono 23:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How the English version of the manga xxxHolic spells her name? How about the movie? What spelling is most often used by reviewers? Per WP:MOS-JA#Article_titles #1, common usage has precedence over WP:MOS-JA. --Kusunose 04:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as the English version. I suppose you mean an English version. That would be one person or a company's version of the original. I do not know, but what if they decided to change the character's name to say Julie, Amy, or Kim? There are potentially many English versions. I've worked as a professional translator. Each company has their own style guides, some embracing and some removing macrons. The spelling "Yuko" is simply a removal of the macron, for whatever reason. The most WP:NPOV is to honestly romanize the original, which is "Yūko". You either like or dislike diacritics, but that is your WP:POV. Bendono 04:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are lots of pages on Wikipedia that use spellings from "the" (read: official, licensed) English versions of manga or anime. It's a valid question. Anyway, we are supposed to prefer such official translations to our own. I'm guessing it has a circumflex in the licensed version, because that's the way the article title stood until recently. Dekimasuよ! 05:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What is licensed is a product for a specific geographical region (usually a country). That does not make it an official English version though. For more popular products, there are multiple versions produced by multiple companies for multiple regions, thus creating multiple English versions, none of which are any more linguistically official than any other. So what do we do? Argue about who's English version is better, more official, or popular? Run web searches and produce statistics and then argue over the validity and correctness of the results? In general, I think an honest romanization of the original is both the most WP:NPOV course and can also bypass most of these issues. Alternatives can and should have redirects.
In this case, specifically, the character's name is 侑子 (ゆうこ). That should be romanized as "Yūko". Sure, there are alternative romanization systems such as "Yûko" (a little archaic) as well. However, as you are surely aware, the romanization system that Wikipedia uses is defined at WP:MOS-JA and prefers macrons to circumflexes. If her name were ゆこ, then "Yuko" would be a perfect spelling. But it is not. It is not my POV. The spelling is simply based on her original name and our styleguide.
We at WP:MOS-JA really should work harder to minimize these constant arguments over diacritics. They are too frequent. We generally end up repeating the same conversations over and over. Bendono 06:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do admit that I don't like how WP:MOS-JP currently prefers all trade names and names "publicly used on the subject's behalf" to standard transliterations with the macrons; I didn't like that it recently forced us to put an article at Iccho Itoh. I hope you also realize that I favor macrons a lot more than I did when I first came here. However, I am finding your argument a little disingenous. A mangaka writes a manga, sells it to a magazine, and that magazine sells it to a foreign publisher to translate as it sees fit. In almost all cases (including this one, I'm sure), there is only one English-language publisher per series. For all intents and purposes, that is the official English version. There is almost certainly nothing for the Del Rey Manga version to conflict with... except our personal transliterations, which aren't the preferred reference. Dekimasuよ! 09:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But even Del Rey isn't consistent in how they romanize it. It's been spelled "Yuko" on the backs of the books, "Yuuko" on their website, and "Yûko" in the books themselves. I think the current spelling is fine as far as making everything that mentions her consistent in the spelling goes. Katsuhagi 10:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Citations[edit]

Where are the citations, most anime/manga articles at least have citations by chapter?

Also does anyone else think that this article is a bit slanted towards Yuko within xxxHolic, she appears quite a bit in Tsubasa and the role isn't small. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.46.93 (talk) 10:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Yuko to Tsubasa Chronicle Template?[edit]

Should Yūko be added to the Tsubasa Chronicle template box? Because she is more than a minor character in Tsubasa Chronicle - she appears frequently in the manga. Ggctuk (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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GOCE copyedit request[edit]

  • When creating Yuko, Clamp wanted to have a character who is aware of the multiple fictional universes she creates during her career. Yuko herself creates new universes with her power? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • When creating Yuko, Clamp gave her three patterns of behavior. The three patterns of behaviour should either be explained or not mentioned at all. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Removed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ohara befriended Fukuyama across their works too. How is this important to understanding Yuko instead of Ohara? This sounds like it should be on Sayaka Ohara instead. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    checkmark Done by requester. Removed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:37, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • More than a third of §Characterization and themes: This section either needs more explicit attribution to Manga Cultures and the Female Gaze, or it should be significantly reduced. This definitely sounds like character interpretation, and should not be in Wikipedia's voice. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Provided attribution, but still think that's too much character interpretation for an encyclopedia. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:40, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the xxxHolic Rō OVA, Watanuki receives a recorded tape from a girl that has Yuko saying "I'm home". The following OVA has Watanuki finding Yuko in one of his Shizuka Dōmeki's memories where the witch gave him a magical egg. This sounds a bit too fancrufty, and they seem more like cameo appearances than notable ones. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    checkmark Done by requester. Removed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:34, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the other hand, Active Anime the revelation that Yuko has always been closed to the antagonist Fei-Wang Reed and how she kept assisting Syaoran in the process while also guarding the younger Watanuki. I have no idea what this sentence is trying to say. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Tweaked the sentence. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looking forward to your responses. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Tenryuu: Thanks for the copyedit. I tried revising everything but it's kinda hard to describe the poison woman stereotype since I couldn't find. From what I understand the poison woman is an archetype of the femme fatale who uses her sex appeal and maturity to interact with others. Judging by a reviewer, Yuko's poison is how she interacts with guests of her shop who are kinda weak.Tintor2 (talk) 23:54, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: While I can appreciate that, the issue isn't what she's characterised as, but what relevance it has to an encyclopedia. I'm not going to touch that section any further, but I would be careful of how much weight that source is given. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:49, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Tenryuu: Did a bit more of removal. Removed the concept of poison woman since it wasn't properly explained in that book too.Tintor2 (talk) 13:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: In that case I believe I am done. Best of luck. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Yuko Ichihara/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Alexandra IDV (talk · contribs) 16:27, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Will be reviewing this.--AlexandraIDV 16:27, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • I think we can expect readers to know what witches are, and remove the link to that
    • Done
  • Kou Shibasaki will portray Yuko in a 2022 live-action film. - make sure not to speak about the future with absolute certainty. Something like "Kou Shibasaki has been cast as Yuko[...]" avoids WP:CRYSTALBALL concerns.
  • Would suggest "animated adaptations" over "versions"
    • Done
  • I think you need to be more specific when mentioning the miniseries and the 2022 film, and linking xxxHolic (miniseries), because the times you mention them in the current revision (both in the lead and in the article body) it is very vague and unclear if they're based on xxxHolic or Tsubasa or what, and almost assumes the reader knows what they are.
    • Done

Creation

  • Yuko's character was not finalized until Clamp met the model who served as a basis for her. - this feels vague. Is "the model" referring to the beautician, or somebody else?
    • Reworded

Characterization

  • in regards to destiny (or inevitability) - this reads fine and more smoothly without the parentheses.
    • Rephrased
  • We don't write euphemisms like "passes away" on WP - go for the plainer "after she dies" or "after her death"
    • Revised

In xxxHolic

  • link yōkai
    • Done
  • Does "hitsuzen" add any nuance to the reader of this article? If hitsuzen means something more than the word inevitability does, you should either explain or link to a WP or Wiktionary article that explains.
    • Revised
  • "In order to" can almost always be rewritten as the more concise "To"
  • Done
  • Again avoid euphemisms like "the late"
    • Done

Other appearances

  • Mention that Midsummer Night's Dream is an animated film
    • Done
  • What are called "drama CDs" in Japanese are typically called audio dramas (or radio dramas if aired on the radio) in English
    • Done
  • xxxHolic ~Watanuki no Izayoi Sowa~ - this is not how we format subtitles on WP. See MOS:JAPAN - this should be written as "xxxHolic: Watanuki no Izayoi Sowa".
    • Done
  • xxxHolic Rei features Yuko. is very brief and ruins the reading flow. What is xxxHolic Rei even?
    • Further expanded
  • while Kou Shibasaki will take the same role in the 2022 live-action film. like before, avoid speaking about future events with absolute certainty
  • Revised.

Reception

  • In the Animage's Anime Grand Prix poll from 2007, - should "the" really be there?
    • Removed.
  • Names of creative works (Animate Times, Anime News Network, Active Anime, UK Anime News, Comics Worth Reading) should be consistently written in italics. Not part of the GA criteria, but this is also an issue with the ref formatting.
    • Added

Images

  • This is not part of the GA criteria, but I would highly recommend adding alt text to all images to aid readers with impaired vision
    • Added alt to every image
  • The caption "A Yuko Ichihara cosplayer." should not end with a period, because that is not a complete sentence
  • I would suggest shrinking the cosplay photo thumbnail to avoid sandwiching the text between it and the pictures of the actresses
    • Removed. I think it kinda clahsed regardless of size or screen of a computer

That's about it, I think. If you wish to take this further after the review, I would recommend taking it through a peer review, because the writing could use some work in spots for improved flow (but not anything standing in the way of GA). I will put this on hold for the standard seven days - ping me when you have addressed the above or if you have any questions, and I will take another look.--AlexandraIDV 23:13, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexandra IDV: I tried revising every issue. Thanks for the review.Tintor2 (talk) 00:02, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have done some further CE (your recent edits inadvertently introduced some typos), but I think it's good to go for GA by now.--AlexandraIDV 19:42, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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