Talk:Zahira Zahir

date of birth?

Someone asserted that ZZ's date of birth was 1972. I believe this was a good faith mistake. Her father was PM in 1972. She was already a married woman when she came to the USA in the 1970s.

So I excised the assertion.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 01:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

This statement is the source of my confusion: "Zahira is the daughter of Abdul Zahir, Afghan Prime Minister in 1972." If this is not the birth date, what is the significance of this date? This statement should be clarified. Also if place of birth can be determined, even just the country, that should be added to the infobox as well. Regards, Leofric1 (talk) 02:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

1972 is the year Abdul Zahir was PM, not the year she was born. Geo Swan (talk) 02:48, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the DOB category. Unless she was a child bride, she can't have been born in 1972 and already married in 1975 to an ambassador.--Auric talk 18:07, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Zahira Zahir/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Longer than stub length, has structure and references. Leofric1 (talk) 15:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 15:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 11:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Please stop changing the ethnicity without any valid sources...

The long post below should end this ridiculous discussion and blatant attempt by sock puppet accounts to perpetuate falsehood. We have a wide array of reputable international sources that include an audio recording of Ahmad Zahir himself, video interviews with colleagues and contemporaries of Ahmad Zahir, and written articles in 3 languages that include quotes from friends and colleagues of Ahmad Zahir. These sources are from BBC Persian, BBC Pashto, The New York Times, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, and others. These sources have a combined hundreds of years of experience in journalism, reporting, and broadcasting. The best part about these sources is that anyone, and I mean anyone, can go and check them and verify their authenticity. If one cannot read the language that some of these sources are written in, that is not a problem either because they are all machine-readable and therefore they can easily be machine-translated by anyone with a computer and access to the internet.

Let's start with foreign language sources, Dari/Persian first.

https://www.bbc.com/persian/arts/story/2003/12/031206_pm-zahir

It clearly says:

".با وجود اينکه احمد ظاهر پشتون بود ولی بيشتر ترانه ای او به فارسی است"

Which translates to:

"Although Ahmad Zahir was a Pashtun, most of his songs are in Farsi/Persian."

Ok, so now we have the Persian language source covered, let's move onto Pashto language sources. The below is an authentic source and it includes audio from interviews done by Ahmad Zahir himself and quotes from friends and colleagues including Khalil Ragheb (worked with Ahmad Zahir as a vocalist for 8 years), Abdullah Shadan (close friend of Ahmad Zahir and former head of Radio Afghanistan), and many others.

https://www.bbc.com/pashto/afghanistan-44439716

Article Title in Pashto: "احمد ظاهر ولې پښتو سندرې کمې ویلې دي؟"

Article Title Translation to English: "Why did Ahmad Zahir sing very few Pashto songs?"

There is a whole section of this article titled "زما مورنۍ ژبه پښتو ده" which translates to "My mother tongue is Pashto". This is a direct quote from Ahmad Zahir during an interview with the Afghan National Radio and Television conducted by Dawood Farani. There is even recorded audio of this interview that you can listen to. After recording his first Pashto song, the interviewer mentioned that Ahmad Zahir sang a Pashto song after he sang three Persian songs first. Ahmad Zahir's response was (audio starts at the 10 second mark):

"شما می فهمید که زبان مادری من پشتو است"

This translates to:

"You all know that my mother tongue is Pashto"

For good measure, the article also includes a copy of the script written in Pashto.

"ما له ډېرې مودې راپدېخوا تصمیم درلود پښتو سندره ووایم، تاسې پوهېږئ چې زما مورنۍ ژبه پښتو ده، او پښتو سندرې ویلو سره مینه لرم"

This translates to: "I have been planning/wanting to sing a Pashto song for a long time. You all know that my mother tongue is Pashto and I love to sing in Pashto"

Then comes a section titled "پښتو سندرې یې ولې کمې دي؟"

This translates to "Why are the Pashto songs few in number?"

Abduallah Shadan, a close friend of Ahmad Zahir and former head of Radio Afghanistan is quoted in the article saying the below. Additionally there is a video of the 3 minute interview with these quotes in the BBC Pashto article. For the full reference, please watch the whole video. The highlights are below:

عبدالله شادان بیا دا کومه نوې خبره نه بولي چې پښتون سندرغاړې دې لږ پښتو سندرې ویلې وي. ښاغلی شادان وايي " یو څه له یاده ونه باسو چې د افغانستان یو شمېر وتلي سندرغاړي اصلاً پښتانه دي، خو اکثریت یې فارسي سندرې ویلې دي، مثلاً احمدولي ته وګورئ، چې په خټه محمدزی دی، خو ډېری سندرې یې فارسي/ دري دي. تاسې ناشناس وګورئ چې پښتون دی، خو د پښتو برابر یې دري سندرې ویلي. تاسې استاد خیال وګورئ چې محمدزی پښتون دی خو د سندرو قاطع اکثریت یې فارسي دري دي او پښتو یې لږ ویلي دي. همداسې نینواز ته وګورئ. دا په دې معنا نه ده چې پښتو سندرې یې نه دي‌ ویلي".

د ښاغلي شادان په اند که دې مسلې ته د تاریخي واقعیت په توګه وکتل شي، ډېرې پوښتنې ځوابېږي. دی وايي " یو څه چې د افغانستان په تاریخ کې پېښ شوي دا دي چې، د ابدالي دولت له تاسیس تر اوسه اکثراً د هېواد مشران پښتانه ول، خو د دوی او د دربار ژبه فارسي وه. تاسې د احمدشاه بابا دربار ته وګورئ، ټول فرمانونه یې په فارسي‌ دي. او یو شمېر هغه خلک دي چې له مشهداو نیشاپوره یې راوستلي ول. د دربار ژبه هر وخت فارسي وه. ډېری پښتانه شاهان آن په پښتو غږېدلی نه شوای."

This translates to:

Abdullah Shadan says that it is not a new phenomenon that Pashtun singers sing few Pashto songs. Don't forget that some of Afghanistan's most famous singers are Pashtuns, but the majority of their songs are in Dari/Persian. For example, take Ahmad Wali who is a Mohammadzai (Pashtun tribe name). Most of his songs are in Dari/Persian. Another example is Nashenas (stage name of singer Sadiq Fitrat Habibi**) who sings a mix/even number of Dari/Persian and Pashto songs. Look at Ustad Khayal, who is Mohammadzai (Pashtun tribe name) but the vast majority of his songs are Persian/Dari. Look at Nainawaz. Just because he didn't sing many Pashto songs doesn't mean he isn't Pashtun.

According to Mr. Shadan since the establishment of the Abdali (Durrani) government, most of the country's leaders have been Pashtuns, but their language and the language of the court was Dari/Persian. Look at Ahmad Shah Baba's (Ahmad Shah Durrani/Abdali, father of Afghanistan) court, all of his decrees were in Persian. The language of the king's court was always Persian. In fact, most Pashtun kings could not even speak Pashto.

• Note: Nashenas' tribe is Kakar, a Pashtun tribe in southern Afghanistan. The quote does not include this info, I am adding it.

Ok, so now we have a Persian language source (BBC Persian) and a Pashto language source (BBC Pashto). For good measure, let's continue to add more sources. Radio Mashaal is a member of Radio Free Europe in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

https://www.mashaalradio.com/a/28810947.html

Article Title in Pashto: "احمد ظاهر یو لیجنډ سندرغاړی"

Article Title in English: "Ahmad Zahir: A Legendary Singer"

This article includes a recording of a podcast called "سندرې جادوګرې" which means "Magical Songs". The podcast is hosted by renowned Pashto language artist and employee of Mashal Radio, Haroon Bacha. At the 3:55 minute mark mark, it says verbatim that his family is from Laghman and they are Pashtun.

Additionally, the second written line of the text says:

"نوموړی که څه هم په خټه پښتون وو، په دري ژبه ويلې سندرې یې په ولس کې خورا زياتې مقبولې شوې دي"

This translates to:

"Although he is Pashtun by birth, his songs in Dari are the most popular."

To top it all off, below you will find multiple reputable english language sources mentioning the ethnicity of Ahmad Zahir being Pashtun. These sources are from the US, UK, and the Middle East. They are from reputable and established newspapers and broadcasting companies that have combined hundreds of years worth of reporting. Additionally, there is also Gandhara which is the go-to source for English-language reporting done by a vast network of local journalists across Afghanistan and Pakistan. More important than these english sources are the Farsi/Persian/Dari and Pashto language sources we have already seen above.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/world/kabul-journal-the-afghan-elvis-lives-24-years-after-his-death.html

https://gandhara.rferl.org/a/afghan-singer-s-legacy-continues-at-home-and-abroad/29570627.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/28/afghanistan.arts

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/10/10/evergreen-afghan-elviss-legacy-endures-decades-after-death

Bottom Line:

Enough is enough. There are more than enough sources provided here to conclude that the ethnicity of Ahmad Zahir and his family are Pashtun. The sources included above are many in number and they are of a variety that is indisputable. They include, but are not limited to English language sources, Persian language sources, Pashto language sources, Persian/Dari language interviews with associates and friends of Ahmad Zahir, and to top it all off we even have a recording of Ahmad Zahir himself saying he is Pashtun. Let's end this nonsense please...

WikiEditUsername7 (talk) 21:00, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

References