Template:Did you know nominations/Christoph Bernhard Verspoell
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:36, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
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Christoph Bernhard Verspoell[edit]
Cover of the Verspoell'sches Gesangbuch, 1829 edition
- ... that the 1810 Catholic hymnal (cover pictured) by Christoph Bernhard Verspoell, with his melodies and organ settings, contains a song included in the common section of the Gotteslob in 2013? Source: several
- Reviewed: Archie Meets the Punisher
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 13:47, 6 August 2018 (UTC).
New enough, long enough. Neutral and mostly cited, although still seems like a draft in parts, with sentences reproduced from the German and left along with their translations but missing citations.
- Hook is formatted acceptably and supported by the Caspari (bit of a shaky source, citing several wikis) and (if I'm half-understanding the Gothic German correctly; AGF on that) Kehrein, but I'm not sure it's interesting to a broad audience: it depends on knowing what the Gotteslob is, and I imagine only a small proportion of readers, particularly of WP-en, will. Could you suggest an alternate, maybe a fact from the Geschichte des katholischen Gesangbuchs or the bit about praising Jesus in sports language from Neuhaus 2017?
- QPQ done. Image is free use, although not particularly attention-grabbing at this size. FourViolas (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing. Sorry, I don't know what you mean by untranslated German, - the long titles of his works, or the phrase from the obituary which was translated before the brackets? - We can shorten the hook to that he published that hymnal, but I thought the connection to 2013 made it more interesting for the average reader, sigh. We could add "common Catholic hymnal" but would have "common" twice. There's a link. It was unexpected that an old hymn made it to the common section. - I have no idea what the Neuhaus has to do with him, - can see only the short version. Something in the pdf? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:36, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, both sets of the German fragments you mention seem to make the page a little hard to manage for Nichtdeutschsprachige. I think at least the second and third book titles could be translated or trimmed, and the original version of the final sentence doesn’t seem necessary. But those are only suggestions, and I don’t mean to hold up promotion over them.
- Sure, the link helps, and you're right the 1810-2013 persistence is interesting. Perhaps you could make the hook about the Gesang itself ("a song by Christoph Bernhard Verspoell") instead of the Gesangbuch, to shorten it a little and make room for a short description of the Gotteslob? “Official” might be better than the second “common”.
- The relevant paragraph in Neuhaus is:
Der „Sieger im Hängen am Kreuz“ gibt Oskar lauter scheinbare Lästerungen ein, die aber zu Gebeten werden und die in die berühmte vielgliedrige Kreuzparonomasie, einen eigenwilligen Kreuz-Hymnus vom Andreaskreuz bis zum >Ins-Kreuz-Treten< münden. Oskar paraphrasiert dabei mit den Turnvergleichen das populäre katholische Karfreitags- und Osterlied Wahrer Gott, wir glauben dir, von Christoph Bernhard Verspoell (1743 - 1818), in dem es, durchaus mit auch im Sport üblichen Begriffen, heißt: „Preis dir, du Sieger auf Golgatha, / Sieger wie keiner! Alleluja!“ —was bei Oskar zu „Sportler aller Sportler, Sieger im Hängen am Kreuz“ und zu „er [...] erfüllte die Disziplin mit der höchstmöglichen Punktzahl“ wird.
- vielen Dank, FourViolas (talk) 20:13, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- I think original book titles and the contemporary obituary add flavour for those who can read them, - of course not necessary. Verspoell seems more notable for publishing a complete hymnal, with melodies and organ (which is unusual) than he would be as writer of one specific one which one writer has interpreted as sportive. "I don't know about "official", - Gotteslob is the hymnal that Catholic churches will supply all over Germany, Austria and Switzerland, but does it make the hymnal "official"? Do you have an idea about wording that one song was kind of upgraded? When you look at the German article, you'll see that several appeared in many many regional sections in 1975, - I don't think I ever went to a Catholic baptism where "Fest soll mein Taufbund immer stehen" was NOT sung, - article to come, so we don't need a hook about that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you, all requirements met and my non-binding suggestions addressed to boot.
for the Kehrein. FourViolas (talk) 20:55, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you, all requirements met and my non-binding suggestions addressed to boot.
- I think original book titles and the contemporary obituary add flavour for those who can read them, - of course not necessary. Verspoell seems more notable for publishing a complete hymnal, with melodies and organ (which is unusual) than he would be as writer of one specific one which one writer has interpreted as sportive. "I don't know about "official", - Gotteslob is the hymnal that Catholic churches will supply all over Germany, Austria and Switzerland, but does it make the hymnal "official"? Do you have an idea about wording that one song was kind of upgraded? When you look at the German article, you'll see that several appeared in many many regional sections in 1975, - I don't think I ever went to a Catholic baptism where "Fest soll mein Taufbund immer stehen" was NOT sung, - article to come, so we don't need a hook about that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
