Template:Did you know nominations/Lila Gene George

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Yoninah (talk) 17:47, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Withdrawn by nominator

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Lila Gene George[edit]

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  • ... that pianist Lila-Gene George won $50 for receiving first place in a women's original music composition contest in 1969?
  • Reviewed: Andreas Bauer (bass)
  • Comment: I thought that the hook might be interesting because of what would now be a small sum of money being won from a competition. Maybe it might be more interesting to younger readers though (the 93 in my username refers to my birth year). If the hook isn't acceptable, I can probably easily find a better one.

Created/expanded by SL93 (talk). Self-nominated at 21:04, 15 November 2018 (UTC).

  • Is new, long enough (2,376 bytes). Copyvio check comes up clean. Seems to be in-policy to me for neutrality, citation and so on. Hook seems good to me. QPQ is done. Ship it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krelnik (talk • contribs)
  • Comment: If the original hook ends up not working, I also have -
  • ALT1: ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George studied under composer Nadia Boulanger for nine summers in France?
  • ALT2: ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George performed in concerts and lecture recitals across the United States, in Central America, in South America, and in Europe? SL93 (talk) 03:34, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but I don't find any of the hooks satisfactory. ALT0 would work if you contrasted the small amount of money she won with the fact that she was a master pianist, if that's true. The minute you have to explain the hook, it means something's missing. ALT1 only works if you know who Nadia Boulanger is. I've struck ALT2 because it could be said of many performers. Yoninah (talk) 18:20, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: ALT3: ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George studied under composer Nadia Boulanger, one of the leading composition teachers in the 20th century, for nine summers in France?
  • ALT4: ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George was a private piano teacher for 13 years in Central America, New York City, and Houston?
  • ALT5: ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George won the Oklahoma Composer's Award from the International Music Fraternity Sigma Alpha Iota in 1969? SL93 (talk) 19:18, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
  • A new reviewer is needed. SL93 (talk) 01:23, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @SL93: I wanted to suggest a new hook, but I can't find anything to use in the article. The lead needs to say something about her notability; otherwise she sounds like thousands of other aspiring pianists out there. There is also too much reliance on local newspapers, with an abundance of The Daily Oklahoman cites; in fact, footnote 1 is the only solid source you have. Could you add some more about her notability and better sources, and then I'll be happy to suggest other hooks. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 01:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: She can't be an aspiring artist when she won awards and has an entry in a women composers encyclopedia. Plus she's dead. There is nothing wrong with local sources. SL93 (talk) 01:32, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @SL93: Are you saying that a sorority award or the $50 award is the same as "a major musical award" or "a major musical competition" per WP:NMUSIC? And you are only citing the encyclopedia for her birthdate and places she performed. Surely there's something else out there about her – interviews? Reviews of her performances? Something? Yoninah (talk) 01:58, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I'm not saying that, or else I would have said it. I don't think you realize how hard it is to find early pre-internet coverage for women. I asked for help at Women In Red. I will withdraw this if no one can help. SL93 (talk) 02:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • "There is also too much reliance on local newspapers" - That doesn't matter. " And you are only citing the encyclopedia for her birthdate and places she performed." - irrelevant and not true. SL93 (talk) 02:06, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I have had articles deleted because they relied too much on local sources. Yoninah (talk) 02:18, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • That doesn't matter to me. There is no such guideline. SL93 (talk) 02:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Back again. Thank you for adding the new sources. I added a cite for her birthdate and graduation date. I removed all that bit about Algernon Charles Swinburne's contribution to the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition because he has his own page. I found this description hard to parse and edited it this way: For Winter's Rains and Ruins are Over set a poem by English poet Algernon Charles Swinburne to music. Therefore your ALT6 needs a little tweaking and shortening to focus the attention on George, not Swinburne. I also like ALT1. Yoninah (talk) 22:20, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the edits. I only added descriptions for the two people with pages because of an issue for the article Rosalie Housman where it was mentioned that a hook should have context for people who didn’t know of the linked person previously. I’m fine with alt 1. I appreciate your criticism because I was able to find more sources. SL93 (talk) 22:24, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
  • That works. SL93 (talk) 03:42, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Reviewer needed for ALT1a. Pinging @Krelnik:. Yoninah (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Looking at ALT1A - Is that "interesting" as such that she studied under "this person" and "that person"? MPJ-DK (talk) 03:52, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Also - the "nine summers" comment does not match up with the year range 71-74, 5 summers short. MPJ-DK (talk) 03:55, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
    • Well, I did submit other hooks and only one person bothered to comment here. I would appreciate it if you had another suggestion instead of holding up this already long discussion page. The nine summers hook thing was long resolved. SL93 (talk) 03:57, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
      • Oh I see, I saw it needing a review, not a request for alternatives, I'll let someone else field this then, suggesting an alternative would invalidate any reviewing I could do so I'm happy to back out of this. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:01, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
    • I most want the hook ... that American pianist Lila-Gene George was listed in the books Flute Music by Women Composers: An Annotated Catalog, The World Who's Who of Women, Volume 2, and the International Encyclopedia of Women Composers?" because I think it will get clicks to read the biography of someone who was included in those books, but it's not up to me in the slightest. SL93 (talk) 04:07, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • "Who's Who" encyclopedias are usually not considered reliable sources. I'll come back to look at this later. Yoninah (talk) 12:50, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I withdraw this. I’m not sure why my closure was undone when the result will be the same. @Yoninah:, it isn’t rushing when it’s been over a month. SL93 (talk) 22:00, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @MPJ-DK: I don't think your comment on hook interest is helpful at all. If you look at the article, you will see that there is not much to work with here. The page creator has submitted 8 hooks; if you like any of them more than I did, please say so. I felt that the American/French/German nationalities gave it a little zing. Your criticism of the "nine summers" is also not valid; don't you see that we added a note with a different opinion? Often sources contradict each other so we put the alternate version in a note; see for example my article Calgary White Hat, second paragraph under History, where an alternate version of the legend is reprinted. It would be more helpful to this exasperated nominator to leave well enough alone and just verify the hook. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 22:15, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • So the hook was listed for review, one of the criteria is "interesting to a broad audience", I provided that review as the very first time - a review I've done for hundreds of other reviews, sorry if you find reviewing it against guidelines "not helpful", please let me know when it's appropriate to deviate from that in future reviews I do, it would be helpful. As for "Nine summers", the article clearly states that, there is no indicator that there is a contradictory source in the actual article itself, putting in as a note downplays it or confuses the reader since there is no actual explanation in the note. The way it's presented it says "nine summers". If sources are unclear it's not on us to pick which one is right, but to present both of them - again I guess it's a problem that I reviewed it based on wikipedia principles. It could have easily stated in that sources don't agree on four or nine, boom - problem solved, neutrality preserved. It is not that hard to be encylopedic and within guidelines. MPJ-DK (talk) 23:27, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Both sources are already represented in the article. Please just withdraw this. SL93 (talk) 04:43, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
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