Template talk:Cite Catholic Encyclopedia

This article is the subject of a request emailed to the Volunteer Response Team (VRT).

Issues identified are: Content from the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia is in the public domain.
The VRTS ticket number is 2018032610011874.

Please discuss these issues here, being mindful of the policies on biographies of living persons.

Year and Volume

What if I know the volume and its year of publication (earlier than 1913)? --84.20.17.84 11:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is meant to be a shorthand for citing the text available on newadvent and wikisource, which is often referred to as a "1913" edition although volumes were released from 1907 to 1913. The full encyclopedia citing template is {{cite encyclopedia}}, and it doesn't seem good to recreate too much of the full template here. If the volume and more specific year of publication are important, that template can be used, though I think that will be fairly rare. Gimmetrow 00:58, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly...

...is the point of being able to reference NA and WS? Isn't the point of WS that it's a place for sources but is within WMF's sphere? 68.39.174.238 13:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Options, mainly. At present the WS text is missing a chunk and has no images. Gimmetrow 15:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Datelinks

{{Editprotected}} Please unlink/unautoformat the accessdate parameter. This is no longer common practice, and has been deprecated in {{Cite web}}, {{cite news}}, {{cite journal}} etc. Inconsistent formatting makes Wikipedia reference sections look unprofessional and haphazard. Thank you, Skomorokh 17:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not done This template calls cite encyclopedia template. All changes should be made to the latter. Ruslik (talk) 17:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Broken link?

This template option: [[wikisource:Catholic Encyclopedia (1913)/Ecclesiastical Heraldry "|Ecclesiastical Heraldry]"] would seem to generate a broken link. Shouldn't it be "Ecclesiastical Heraldry", or [[wikisource:Catholic Encyclopedia (1913)/Ecclesiastical Heraldry |"Ecclesiastical Heraldry"]]? Lithoderm 04:35, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, I think. This used a trick to get an interwiki to wikisource, and the trick probably quit working with this change to {{cite encyclopedia}}.[1]. Gimmetrow 07:00, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about the "author" parameter? It's not showing up. --Bwpach (talk) 18:49, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hidden category for source

~~I think we should add the source category Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating text from the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia to the template.~~

~~I propose we add the following code to both this and the {{Catholic}} template:~~

~~<includeonly>[[Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating text from the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia]]</includeonly>~~

~~--Eastlaw (talk) 10:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)~~[reply]

Struck request, I no longer think it is necessary to add the category to this template. --Eastlaw (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apostrophe

How does one encode an argument for "wstitle" like All Saints' Day so that the apostrophe does not get mapped to .27 and break the link? Bob Burkhardt (talk) 14:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Works now. Gimmetrow 14:42, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 14:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility improvement

{{editprotected}} Please add "|link=|alt=" to the two images in this template for greater WP:ACCESSIBILITY by visually impaired readers, as per WP:ALT#Purely decorative images. This sandbox patch shows how. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikisource link without the icon

It would be convenient to link to Wikisource, but not have the icon. This is useful when it appears in a {{Wikisource-inline}} list. Cain and Abel currently seems to be crying out for this treatment, but a Wikisource icon in the list as well as at the beginning of the list seems like too much. I implemented this at the request of another user for {{Cite Appletons'}}. Something like the current "short" flag in this CathEncy would seem appropriate, but call it "noicon". Bob Burkhardt (talk) 15:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from Bob Burkhardt, 15 July 2010

{{editprotected}} Please make the icon optional. This can be done by replacing

[[File:wikisource-logo.svg|15px|link=|alt=]]

with

{{#if:{{{noicon|}}}||[[File:wikisource-logo.svg|15px|link=|alt=]] }}

See my previous discussion item for the rationale. Please note there is a non-breaking space in both of these lines. With this edit in place, the icon can be removed by specifying noicon=x in addition to the value for wstitle. Thanks.

Bob Burkhardt (talk) 19:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Would you mind updating the documentation? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks again. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Year and volume 2

I want to make some changes to this template. See above #Year and Volume. I think that year and volume should be added. The default year can remain 1913 but I think that if year is overwritten of a volume number if given then the date of the copyright should be displayed. This can be automated as it is in {{DNB Cite}}

 | volume = {{{volume|}}}
 | year = {{{year|{{#switch:{{{volume}}}
   | 1 | 2 = 1907
   | 3 | 4 = 1908
   | 5 | 6 = 1909
   | 7 | 8 | 9 = 1910
   | 10 | 11 | 12 = 1911
   | 13 | 14 | 15 = 1912
   | 1913
   }}<!--EOS-->}}}

This is an extension to the current template and it will not affect the current appearance. -- PBS (talk) 12:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikisource links

Shouldn't the links to Wikisource be piped interwikis as such: Main Page, instead of being usual external hyperlinks? —innotata 14:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am installing new logic.

If wstitle= is set then a piped interwiki link is used and the url settings are ignored even if set.
if title= is set then id= can be used to set a url to http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/id.html. If "url=" is also set then id= is ignored.

At the moment no parameter defaults to an external link to wikisource of the same name. It is my intention to go through the articles and change all such settings to a page if it exits. If it does not exist then I'll set title and well see if an article can be found. I'll create a temporary variable for the change and a temporary hidden category so that they can be tested to see if they exist.-- PBS (talk) 07:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I've been through all the articles that include this template. To the best of my knowledge there are now no instances where this template is included with either no parameters or any unnamed parameters, so I have now removed the code that supported those options. This has allowed the code to be simplified and cleaned up anomalies where url links could be given to Wikisource without the initial Wikisource icon appearing. The order is now id= ignored if url= which and both are ignored if wstitle= is set. -- PBS (talk) 02:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The author display has ceased functioning (consult doc). I can't see the problem, and maybe it lies with {{cite encyclopedia}}, but this recent edit may have done it. Bob Burkhardt (talk)

accessdate also no longer seems to work when wstitle is set, though it seems to work when it is not set. Maybe it never worked for the wstitle case. Probably doesn't make much sense with a semi-internal link. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 14:00, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

author

Before this template worked on converting author to last. I simplified the code to past it strait through A. C. Fox-Davies (1913). "Ecclesiastical Heraldry" . In Herbermann, Charles (ed.). Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.

I investigated a little. If "last=" is passed into {{cite encyclopedia}} as an empty parameter the the author link fails: A. C. Fox-Davies. Ecclesiastical Heraldry.

But the template with author set but "last=" missing works as expected: A. C. Fox-Davies. Ecclesiastical Heraldry.

So we can hack in a fix by putting passing author in as last, or we can ask for a fix to {{cite encyclopedia}}, or we can do both. I guess we go with option three. -- PBS (talk) 21:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

accessdate

It has taken me an age to track this one through. I assumed it was something I had changed in the code that had broken something! So first I caught a fish ( I installed vi via cygwin on my little netbook) and checked "{}" bracket pairs thinking they were unbalanced, but it was not so! The old code instead of using an interwiki link use a URL address. accessdate= only works if an url= parameter is set. As it is no longer automatically sets the url= when wstitle= is used, the accessdate is no longer set. -- PBS (talk) 04:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing these. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 15:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

pass through "quote" parameter

A simple edit should add "quote" to the parameters passed through. There may be some other useful parameters which could be passed through as well. See {{Cite EB1911}}. Library Guy (talk) 21:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I concur! --Zfish118 (talk) 14:17, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I have added this parameter. Here's an example:

Turner, William (1907). "Aristotle" . Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 1. Aristotle was a great philosopher.

Let me know if I broke anything. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:47, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

display parameter

A display parameter, as appears in {{Cite EB1911}} and many similar templates, would be handy here as well. It would enable artificial titles generated by disambiguation (for example "Able (1)" and "St. Germain (2)") to be given a more genuine looking text. An attempt to use such a parameter appears in Germanus of Auxerre. Library Guy (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How to fix this error message?

As of now, this Template's output contains a red-text error message that reads "article name needed"; please, an Admin with access to editing this Template, fill the appropriate parameter to get rid of that error message. Since I'm not an Admin but at least pointed it out, take this as a Request. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:27, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If possible, please link to an article where you see this problem. It is not a problem for the template page itself to show this error message; it demonstrates what happens when you do not supply an article name. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:24, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Articles incorporating a citation from the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia with no article parameter (1,195 articles listed) which is a good reason to keep the red error message, because otherwise Wikipedia is saying to a reader "you can find the relevant information yourself somewhere among the 11,000 articles in the 15 volumes". -- PBS (talk) 21:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is exactly what I did, find the article myself. It took less than a minute because the articles are listed in alphabetical order in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Here's an article with that problem, Isidore of Kiev. I found his Catholic Encyclopedia article title, Isidore_of_Thessalonica, but have nowhere to put it in the existing template.--FeralOink (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

When there is a Wikisource article, you can do this to fix the problem. This template's documentation seems pretty clear to me, but if you can think of a better way to illustrate how to use it, please improve the documentation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:49, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 7 September 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please link the editor's name to Charles George Herbermann. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 16:23, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is it really necessary to link to Herbermann from every instance of this template in all 8,000+ articles where it is used? Does linking to Herbermann help the reader locate a copy of the source? (these questions might well be asked of the link to Catholic Encyclopedia but since it has been linked from the very beginnings of this template, perhaps we're stuck with that decision...)

This template accepts all parameters that {{cite encyclopedia}} accepts so, when it is necessary to link to Herbermann:

{{Cite CE1913 |wstitle=Ecclesiastical Heraldry |author=A. C. Fox-Davies |editor-link=Charles George Herbermann}}

A. C. Fox-Davies (1913). "Ecclesiastical Heraldry" . In Herbermann, Charles (ed.). Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:53, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]