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Template talk:Cite gnis/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Title?

Some have thought that "Geographic Names Information System" should be assigned to the title field of the {{Citation/core}} template. I think it is more rightly part of the name of the publisher. –droll [chat] 04:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Example: "Whitney". NGS Data Sheet. National Geodetic Survey, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, United States Department of Commerce. Retrieved 2008-10-31.
Another similar template {{Cite bivouac}} does the same thing by assigning "Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia" to the work parameter of the {{Cite web}} template (which in turn assigns it to the {{Cititation/core}} Title parameter):
Example: {{cite bivouac|14|Mount Logan|2008-10-31}}
My edit also made {{Cite gnis}} generate the same output as using a combination of {{Cite web}} and {{gnis3}}, as shown in the following example from Template:gnis/doc):
Code: {{cite web |url= {{gnis3|112837}} |title= Wheeler Lake |work= [[Geographic Names Information System]] |publisher= [[United States Geological Survey]] |accessdate= 2009-07-05}}
Output: "Wheeler Lake". Geographic Names Information System. United States Geological Survey. Retrieved 2009-07-05.
According to Template:Cite web/doc, the work parameter is used when the "item is part of a larger 'work', such as a book, periodical or website":
Example: "My Favorite Things, Part II". Encyclopedia of Things. Open Publishing. Retrieved 6 July 2005.
I think that applies here, since the item being cited is a part of the larger work GNIS (http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/), which is one of many websites published by the USGS. -- Zyxw (talk) 07:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
You mention {{Cite ngs}} and {{Cite bivouac}} as possible precident. I wrote them too. I've got the flu right now I don't have the energy to work too hard on this right now. I feel uncomfortable saying that GNIS is a title or a work. It's not a book or even just a data set. It is some sort of ongoing process which generates a data set. My point is that using italics is the result of an historical process that lead to a reference style. I wonder if there is precedent here. I doubt there is anything in the MOS that could be applied in this case but I could be wrong and I haven't really checked. I'll give this more thought when I'm feeling better but for now, unless a precedent can be found for the use of italics, I think there is no reason to start a precedent here.
I have considered using italics for the feature name. If you check the source for the web page City of Mosier it claims that the title is "GNIS Detail - City of Mosier". To be truthful I don't feel strongly about any of this. In the end I think that the readability of the output of the template is what matters and that should be as simple as possible. –droll [chat] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 January 2013

The template should use {{cite web}}'s id param to display the given Feature ID.

Markup Current rendering Proposed rendering 
*{{cite gnis|1503126|Bainbridge Island}}
*{{cite gnis|1512809|Bainbridge Island}}

The change is in the sandbox. —Mrwojo (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

A user can ascertain the id by clicking on the link. I what way would the additional data be generally useful? –droll [chat] 22:51, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
The Feature ID is the unique, permanent identifier for a GNIS feature. As demonstrated above, our citation text is vague without it. —Mrwojo (talk) 00:57, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree that this would be a useful feature. Pages such as list of longest streams of Oregon have multiple GNIS features with the same names. (Rock Creek, for instance.) LittleMountain5 01:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Would it be satisfactory if this feature were added as an option. –droll [chat] 02:07, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The identifying information should always be shown in a citation. If we're looking for ways to keep this template concise, we could make the name optional. —Mrwojo (talk) 02:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I strenuously object to this modification on the grounds that the additional text is is unnecessary and adds little of value in the general case. –droll [chat] 05:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm also struggling to come up with a use case here. The Feature ID is a completely arbitrary string, right? Users aren't going to be able to compare different feature IDs except to note that they're different from one another. This doesn't seem to provide any particular value in a given article (users will not be able to tell two features called Rock Creek apart from the Feature ID, for instance). It's not like an ISBN where MediaWiki itself provides lookup support. Why are readers going to want to see the Feature ID? Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
In a citation, even one with a URL, it's useful to show the Feature ID of GNIS in the same sense that it's useful to show the headword of a dictionary. The name is a poor way to reference the database, and right now that's what this template shows. —Mrwojo (talk) 18:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Not done: I've marked the edit request as answered for now. Please activate the {{edit protected}} template again when there is a consensus for what improvements, if any, should be made. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 19:22, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Links off

{{editprotected}} Some articles and lists use this template repeatedly, and the blue links get overwhelming. I've added a links off parameter in the sandbox which removes the links from Geographic Names Information System and United States Geological Survey when used; please sync the main template with it. Thanks, LittleMountain5 16:01, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

  • Wait a bit. I'd like to check this change for myself. Thanks. 18:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I changed your version a bit. Now only links works and not link. I guess I'm a bit fussy. Also the parameter value must be off. I'm an old coder (hacker) and I believe that vagueness leads to trouble. Maybe I'm being too fussy. If you think so then I'll change it. I also tweaked the error messages so they look more like the ones that {{cite web}} prints. If you OK with the changes then just restore the editprotected template. Thanks.  –droll [chat] 20:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Fine with me, checkYrestored. Cheers, LittleMountain5 23:49, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:58, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I didn't realize it at the time, but {{{1}}} produces a slightly different output than when the links are left on. Please change the following code from: 

| publisher = {{#ifeq:{{{links|}}}|off
        | Geographic Names Information System. United States Geological Survey
        | [[Geographic Names Information System]], [[United States Geological Survey|U.S. Geological Survey]]}}

to: 

| publisher = {{#ifeq:{{{links|}}}|off
        | Geographic Names Information System, U.S. Geological Survey
        | [[Geographic Names Information System]], [[United States Geological Survey|U.S. Geological Survey]]}}

Thanks! LittleMountain5 17:49, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 19:35, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Text

Please expand the output text as follows. Thanks! • Sbmeirow • Talk • 06:09, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

  • From "Geographic Names Information System" to "Geographic Names Information System (GNIS)"
  • From "U.S. Geological Survey" to "United States Geological Survey (USGS)"
Do you know of any reference in the MOS that would support this change. I, personally, don't see why this would be an improvement. –droll [chat] 02:30, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Do you know of any reference saying that it shouldn't be changed? The Wikipedia article is the long form United States Geological Survey and really no reason to shorten it, and (GNIS) / (USGS) are common acronyms. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 08:38, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 9 October 2014

Please simplify the following two lines: 

| Geographic Names Information System, U.S. Geological Survey
       | Geographic Names Information System, U.S. Geological Survey}}

to: 

| Geographic Names Information System, United States Geological Survey
       | Geographic Names Information System, United States Geological Survey}}

This is the common use of both the full USGS name and the article title. Thanks,  Buaidh  04:55, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

 Done — xaosflux Talk 21:06, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 16 Jan 2015

Please add <includeonly> </includeonly> around the template code. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 02:27, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. Why? Use case? Consensus discussion? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:01, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Is there anyone against this. This will simply remove the error message from the top of the template page itself. If no one is apposed, after a while I will reactivate this request AManWithNoPlan (talk) 23:20, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 Not done Does not add anything of use to this template. — xaosflux Talk 03:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
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