Template talk:Cleveland Browns staff

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Cleveland

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Owners

@Vjmlhds: We don't typically list minority owners on these templates, as many are unknown or there are too many to list that don't have actual say in the direction of the franchise. For instance, Jennifer Lopez, Marc Anthony, Gloria Estefan, and Emilio Estefan are minority owners of the Miami Dolphins per this. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:44, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Vjmlhds: It's a bloat issue, we don't need to add every single person listed on the Browns website (we have a direct link to it for those who to see everything). At the very least consolidate the positions; there is no reason why we need to list strength and conditioning assistants four times instead of once. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 09:14, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Vjmlhds: @Dissident93: both you please stop edit warring and discuss here. Eagles 24/7 (C) 22:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:BRD. The editor keeps reverting and has yet to respond here. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - See WP:BRDD from within BRD. Eagles 24/7 (C) 23:01, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - The user still needs to make some effort to discuss outside of edit summaries though. If the edit just stays on his version, then how is consensus supposed to be reached without doing so? You already noted above that we shouldn't be listing minority owners. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - They posted on my talk page to discuss my above comment. Eagles 24/7 (C) 00:38, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the issue - this template is based on who the Browns have listed as owners. We (meaning Wiki editors) can't take it upon ourselves to pick and choose who to list. Being part of an NFL front office or coaching staff makes one notable because of the nature of the job. We aren't listing custodians or security guards or beer vendors or anything like that, but people who are in some form of management or coaching, thus anyone within that sphere should be listed. I am going to reset things to how it was before all this started, and invite any other editors to put in their $0.02. Whatever consensus comes up with is fine by me, but give it a week to let fresh eyes take a peek and offer their opinion...that should be fair enough. Vjmlhds (talk) 02:24, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, these templates are not just copy-pastes of NFL website coaching staff pages. This Wikipedia template is not owned by the Cleveland Browns and we as editors make judgments on what to include on this website. Positions like "assistant to the head coach" are sometimes listed on team websites, but we have never included them on these templates because that position is, in essence, a head coach's secretary. Please do not revert to your revision again per BRD and WP:3RR. Listing owners separately from front office staff is inconsistent with the rest of the NFL staff templates and it's one of the things I was arguing about in the previous discussion we had. Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, give consensus a week to figure it out, whatever they say goes, and I'll live with it. If they agree with me - great, if not - that's fine too. Beats going back and forth. Vjmlhds (talk) 15:18, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously being on an NFL coaching staff is notable just due to how rare it is. That being said, my issue with it is entirely bloat-related and not their notability. We don't need to add every single minority owner or special assistant to an assistant, we have the website for that. I suggested this before, but I think we should have a standardized NFL staff template with strict parameters to avoid any sort of issue like we are currently having. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting proposal, but these staffs vary so much in filled positions that I don't think it'd be too practical. We could instead have a guideline similar to WP:NFLINFOBOX that explicitly states which positions should be included or omitted from these templates after forming a consensus. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:24, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's true, and would work the same way if enforced. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:53, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vjmlhds: It's been a week with still no support for including minority owners, so I'm going with the standardized formatting. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:26, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Acronyms

Per MOS:ACRO, acronyms should not be used without first explaining what they mean. We could say "Vice president (VP) of football administration – Chris Cooper" and then for the next line say "VP of player personnel – Ken Kovash" but I'm not sure that helps too much. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:39, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]