Template talk:Country data Vietnam

Page moved

I moved this template, and changed all related references, from Viet Nam to Vietnam because the main article for Vietnam here is so spelt. There is a related debate at Talk:Vietnam. --Tim 12:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 March 2016

I would appreciate a lot if someone will help to change flag alias-naval = Ensign of Vietnam People's Navy.png to .svg. The vectorized file is more accurate according to sources. Many thanks. Ericmetro (talk) 15:43, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Done Bazj (talk) 16:02, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 January 2019

I propose change the historical flags to
| flag alias-1863 = Long Tinh Kỳ (Dragon Star Flag) nhà Nguyễn, 1802-1885.png
| flag alias-1885 = Flag of Central Vietnam (1885-1890).svg
| flag alias-1890 = Standard of the Nguyen Dynasty (1890 - 1920).svg
| flag alias-1920 = First flag of the Nguyen Dynasty.svg
| flag alias-1945 = Flag of the Empire of Vietnam (1945).svg
| flag alias-1945a = Flag of North Vietnam (1945-1955).svg
and therefore also change the correspondingvars

List of flags of Vietnam
http://phuotky365.blogspot.com/2017/03/quoc-ky-viet-nam-theo-dong-lich-su.html

Code for this change is on the template page sandbox

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Vietnam.html
Havsjö (talk) 23:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 23:30, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 17 December 2021

Per recent changes at en:List of flags of Vietnam, I propose these changes:

| flag alias = Flag of Vietnam.svg
| flag alias-1885 = Flag of Central Vietnam (1885-1890).svg
| flag alias-1890 = Standard of the Nguyen Dynasty (1890 - 1920).svg
| flag alias-1941 = Long tinh flag.svg
| flag alias-1945 = Flag of the Empire of Vietnam (1945).svg
| flag alias-1945a = Flag of North Vietnam (1945-1955).svg
[...]

and also the corresponding |vars

Note:

• No clear evidence of the existence of the 1802-1885 flag
• No such thing as the "First flag" and "Second flag" of the Nguyễn, but only vi:cờ Long tinh, used by the dynasty from 1920s, and used as a national flag from 1941 to 1945. Greenknight dv (talk) 00:10, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Non-historic flag

It seems File:Royal Flag of Vietnam (1802–1885).svg is non-historical. See Commons:Village pump#Fictional flag, real issues and Talk:Nguyễn lords#Flag?!. Please take whatever measures needed to remove the image from where it is misleading. I assume many of the uses are through this template, but it has also been inserted directly in articles. –LPfi (talk) 11:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

To editor LPfi:  Question: it's unclear what edit you want to make to this template. Sounds like you just want the 1802–1885 flag variant removed from certain articles where it is misleading. If this template is used to make this flag variant appear, just remove the variant from this template or remove this template from the article. If that flag has been misleadingly inserted directly in any articles, then it should be removed directly from those articles. There was no reason to delete the flag, the Commons editors did not want to dictate its usage, and if there are any usages of this template with that variant flag that are not misleading, then that is reason enough to keep this variant in this template, don't you agree? P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 10:45, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: I suppose the entry for the flag should be removed from this template, but I don't know how that would influence template transclusions – I am not that versed in editing complex templates, and as non-administrator I cannot revert or correct the edit if it goes wrong, so you must check that yourself. Of course, explicit uses on other pages don't need admin privileges, but I wanted to mention it here, as people watching this page might want to take action on that issue. –LPfi (talk) 11:53, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

If the flag variant is used in this template in an article, and the variant is removed from this template, the article's flag image should change to the main Vietnam flag, which can also be misleading in some cases. I think the best that can be done is to make a note in the documentation that the image file has been labeled "fictitious and unofficial". That has been done under the heading Other information. If you want to add to or alter that, the doc page is not template-protected. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 12:28, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Vietnam with existing variant {{flag|Vietnam|1890}}

Vietnam with nonexisting variant {{flag|Vietnam|1862}}

...just to show what happens if a nonexisting flag variant is used. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 13:02, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth:, I wasn't aware of this discussion. But I was attempting to change the flag in the infobox of the article "French conquest of Vietnam" when I came across this image. Simply put, there are alternatives. Chinese cultural countries had national seals that functioned as a national symbol and the seal "File:Heirloom seal of the Nguyễn Dynasty.svg" could suffice for the 1846–1884 period and the 1890 to 1920 period.

Also note that "Standard of the Nguyen Dynasty (1890 - 1920).svg" isn't supported by any evidence either, as only the Đồng Khánh Emperor had a flag before the Khải Định period.

Meanwhile the seal "File:Seal of Nguyễn Lords.svg: could be used for the 1802 to 1845 period. When using country data national seals functioned as the only symbol of the state before the introduction of a national flag under the French. Plus it won't break any existing templates with anarchronistic symbols. --Donald Trung (talk) 13:42, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

To editor Donald Trung: please be very clear and let me know what, if any, edits you want to make. Thank you for your improvements! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 07:55, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth:, not sure how to re-word the above, simply replace the unsourced fantasy flags with the seals for the periods specified above. --Donald Trung (talk) 13:01, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

One thing I don't get is that you say, "only the Đồng Khánh Emperor had a flag before the Khải Định period," so does that mean that the 1885 flag, which comes before the File:Standard of the Nguyen Dynasty (1890 - 1920).svg, is also in question? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 14:41, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Paine Ellsworth, I saw it being debunked in a Vietnamese-language article critical of Wikipedia but I can't seem to find that article anymore. The issue is where it is sourced from, namely this painting, as the painting depicts a flag with Chinese characters on it that the painter likely couldn't read it appears as zigzag lines. Thus the flag is a misrepresentation of a Nguyễn Dynasty flag. If we can find other contemporary proof of what the flag looked like that would be great, but it wasn't a horizontal flag, the uploader just misinterpreted it that way because that's how European flags look (note that the Đại Nam flag also is vertical). It is safer to have no flag and use another national symbol that is verified than to use a deliberate misrepresentative image that gives a false Impression. -- Donald Trung (talk) 09:32, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

To editor Donald Trung: made changes to Template:Country data Vietnam/sandbox – the documentation on that page reflects the changes. Does that correctly depict the edits that you suggest? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 00:18, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Donald Trung, any further interest? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 17:15, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 28 October 2023

Could you change flag please:

from this

| flag alias-navy = Ensign of Vietnam People's Navy.svg

to this

| flag alias-navy = Vietnam People's Navy flag.svg

Add this flag:

| flag alias-naval = Ensign of Vietnam People's Navy.svg

Add coast guard:

| flag alias-coast guard = Vietnam Coast Guard flag.svg

| link alias-coast guard = Vietnam Coast Guard

VNW060222 (talk) 13:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 19:35, 28 October 2023 (UTC)