User talk:Beneaththelandslide/Archive7

This is inactive discussion. Please do not edit it.

Jackp and RaprtorRobot...

User:RaptorRobot managed to get himself blocked as being a puppet of Jackp, although now another editor (admin?) seems to be challenging this requesting evidence. Do you have anything to add? many thanks Merbabu 21:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Help

I'm fine, just a bit frustrated that The Mars Bar was marked for speedy deletion, yet it clearly fits under the categories of 'LGBT nightclubs' and 'Nightclubs in Australia' and is noteworthy as it's the only gay club in Adelaide. But obviously not good enough for admins, then I get stuck in to about calling people homophobic (even though I actually didnt) and then to top it off i get patronised like some bloody wikipedia newbie with "Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia". I find that quite frankly offensive. Timeshift 08:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Speedy delete got removed by Scott, but now it's on AfD. Rather than just leave again, I will give it a chance. You are welcome to participate in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Mars Bar. Timeshift 14:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Australia and the United Nations

Australia and the United Nations has been selected as the new Australian collaboration of the fortnight. I created a tiny stub. Please help to improve it however you can. Thanks. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Neil Blewett

Thanks, yeah, I've been going backwards through the lists of ministers and trying to get rid of the redlinks. Was surprised that Neal Blewett didn't have an article, as I remember he was very high profile back in the 1980s and 1990s. What is amusing is that just when I think there won't be much material to fill an article for some of these ministers, I discover they resigned over a share trading or travel rort scandal - of course, that would never happen nowadays would it? --Canley 01:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Waterfall Gully petition

Happen to have your name on the very first item of business on http://www2.parliament.sa.gov.au/hansard_data/2007/HA/WH280307.HA.htm - out of sheer curiousity? Timeshift 11:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Mmm inaction on issues is often bipartisan. Speaking of which, looking at the usually reliable Newspoll results, the Libs in both state and federal are looking quite icky at the moment - Labor on 61% 2PP for both! Something is not right. Timeshift 12:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

It's funny you say that, my uncle was a solid Liberal voter (and once joined them) but that stopped when Howard came in. Big scandals have imho rocked the govt and now theres a viable alternative, I just don't understand how it's 61%. Timeshift 12:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you consider yourself a wet or dry, or do you not like the tags/connotations they carry? Timeshift 12:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

South Australian general election, 2006

Thanks for your message. My draft (with a couple of changes from Rocksong) is at Talk:South Australian general election, 2006/temp. Joestella 12:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Liberal Movement

I've nominated Liberal Movement for FAR because I don't think it was quite up to scratch, and three supports aren't really adequate for a FA. I'm more than happy to drop it provided that the implementations on the writing are put into place as you agreed. JRG 03:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Thomas playford IV

I'm disappointed you did a complete revert due to "wowser" and "6pm closing" being WP topics on their own.
The revert also deleted several other points not found elsewhere that should be included.

• Although Wowser is a WP topic there is no mention anywhere that Playfords policies resulted in the name being applied to the state. Deletion could be seen as bias.
• Eliminating mention of 6pm closing also eliminated his ban on restaurant alcohol sales after 9:30pm which loses context without mention of 6pm closing if it is included.

The information reverted gave valuable insight into Playford as a person and the extent of Adelaides conservatism under his leadership. If you still feel the revert is justified then I will ask for a consensus on the talk page. Regards Wayne 01:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The edit made no claim that Playford had anything to do with implementing the policies but made the point that he supported them and resisted pressure to change them.
Adelaide was conservative and mention of why, instead of just saying it was, is not "bashing" but relevant historical context of what was a major issue at the time (which i personally lived through). I have lived in most Australian cities at one time or another but Adelaide is my home and by far the best in my opinion yet I'm not going to gloss over our less favourable history just because I love the place. I would hope that a factual encyclopedic article would do the same. Wayne 02:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey Old Boy

You still wikipedying? Howd the meet with Jimbo go? By the way, I hope we can work together on the 2007 Federal Election entry when theres no "liberal" government anywhere in the country. Immanuel goldstein 03:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

But that guy in the picture shaking your hands looks like a lumpenprol doesnt he? And I'm proud to be a part of the ALP's revolution, even if it is a "education revolution".

I suppose you tagged the SAA page for deletion? Has the liberal party got you on a retainer as the wikipolice? Immanuel goldstein

Wiki meetup

I'd have liked to be there, but it was too hard. But I'm curious... what was the "religious factions" discussion about? Rocksong 06:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Excellent pic, good man! Enjoyed it, looking forward to the next one :) Nice to meet you, – Riana ^ऋ 07:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I enjoyed chatting with you Michael – it was great to finally meet. Happy editing, --cj | talk 10:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Martin Hamilton-Smith

I'd be interested to know what your opinions of him are so far. Timeshift 09:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

LOL! Nice pic! I agree his hypenated surname doesnt help at all. Hamilton-Smith is far less catchy than Rann. My wikibreak is still very much in effect, I do not contribute until Joe is gone. I have come across a fair few things that need fixing such as typos or improving but as stated I will no longer be contributing while Joe changes articles in to things completely different and of lesser quality. Consensus will be his downfall but until that time I will let my wikipedia hobby be of no benefit. Timeshift 09:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's where things head from here after my changes... and on the original topic, I was actually quite suprised at the advertiser poll results. For all his faults, MHS did put up a much better fight than Evans did, especially in parliament, but all for very little effect it seems. Timeshift 04:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Let me know when you take a pitchfork to the imagenazis, i'll come with :D Timeshift 14:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Rhodesia/Zimbabwe elections

Thanks for the contact. There are several good sources for Rhodesian and Zimbabwe elections but they can be somewhat difficult to track down. Up to 1962, all election results with impeccable sourcing are included in "Source Book of Parliamentary Elections and Referenda in Southern Rhodesia 1898-1962", ed. by F.M.G. Willson (Department of Government, University College of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Salisbury 1963), which is in specialist and very large libraries. I was lucky enough to find a copy on Abebooks.com as well; they come up occasionally. In the same series is "Holders of Administrative and Ministerial Office 1894-1964" which lists members of the Assembly and their dates of holding office.

After 1962 the researcher is thrown back on the sources used by Willson. The "Government Gazette" lists candidates' names and tells you who won the elections, although it does not include any voting or electorate statistics. The "Rhodesia Herald"/"The Herald" newspaper gives the voting results, and so using both of those in conjunction is good enough. Rhodesian newspapers followed the British practice of having a Sunday sister newspaper with a different title, so it is necessary to check the "Sunday Mail" as well. (When I was researching, I found only one library in the whole of the UK which had the "Sunday Mail") The only problem comes with the seats which were designated for Africans; the Herald had an almost entirely white readership and so did not bother reporting these elections in detail. I remain convinced there was a quality newspaper which served the Rhodesian African middle-class at this time and am continuing to search for it.

These sources normally do after 1979 as well. However, I had some problems: the Zimbabwe Government Gazette decided not to include the 1990 election candidates for some reason, and the coverage in the Zimbabwe Herald becomes very patchy, omitting some constituencies entirely. After 2000 sourcing becomes much less of an issue because of the higher profile for Zimbabwean politics.

Another useful set of publications, albeit somewhat rare, are the Reports of the Delimitation Commissions which set the constituency boundaries. The Official Reports of Debates in the Assembly are also useful in identifying when MPs gave up their seats and why. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 15:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Walensky

Michael

It's very nicely written. A few points:

• The trivial links detract from the high-value ones and spatter the page with blue. Some are linked to each other (Apartheid South Africa --> South Africa). Some are repeated.
• No hyphen after "-ly". (x 2 in the lead).
• "that was seen as a balance between": what does "seen as" add? It makes me look for a reference. I guess it's a hedge, and there's no reference because it's in the lead. Do you need a hedge here?
• "Becoming Prime Minister of the Federation in 1957, Welensky opposed British moves towards African majority rule, and used force to suppress politically-motivated violence in the territories. With the advent of African rule in two of the Federation's three territories, it collapsed in 1963." I'm pinching this for my 1a page on uncertain referents (what does "it" refer to?). Hope you don't mind.
• "Unsuccessful, he succeeded": is there a better wording? I can't see one immediately, but it's not good as is.
• "he attempted to re-enter politics and prevent Rhodesia (formerly Southern Rhodesia) declaring itself unilaterally independent." Noun plus gerund, an area of tension in the grammar nowadays. Strictly speaking "Rhodesia's declaring itself", but see how I reworded it. Also, was he unsuccessful at re-entering politics? That's what it said. Check my change in that respect.
• Compared with for contrasts. Don't compare me to Hitler. "Shall I comare thee to a summer's day?" But the passage is a bit laboured, isn't it: "a sentiment that was distinct among Rhodesians compared with their cousins in other nations of the British Empire". Why not: "a distinctive sentiment among Rhodesians"?
• I sometimes find phrases or items at the end of a sentence that should be in the middle, connected with associated information.
• "put Salisbury [the capital] on fire ... I got Salisbury rocking, rocking, and got it awake out of its political sleep..."—space, three dots, space, if the break is in the middle of a sentence. No space, four dots, space, if it's at a full-stop. Check.
• References: use en dashes for page ranges, and I like just two final digits: "p. 324-325" --> "pp. 324–25".
• "very cautious"—vague.
• Woulditis and startitis.Tony 01:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Userpage and Rhodesian Front

I saw you reverted my edit to Rhodesian Front. My edit changed a series of bullets into paragraph form. This is per Wikipedia's Manual of Style guidelines. If you disagree with my edit then please explain why - either on my talkpage or the article talkpage. I also see you reverted Gnome Bot's edit to your userpage. The bot removed an unlicensed image, again per Wikipedia guidelines. It will do so again. Perspicacite 05:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Please refrain from removing citations as you did here.[1] Your conduct on Ahrn Palley follows into the category of Wikistalking. Additionally, referring to fact templates as "stupid" adds nothing to the discussion. Perspicacite 05:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Please refrain from referring to edits made in good faith as "vandalism" as you did here[2] as this is an incorrect characterization and a misunderstanding of WP:VAND. Referring to my edits as "mindlessly adher[ing] to dogma"[3] is also highly uncivil. Perspicacite 05:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Again I ask that you maintain civility. Characterizing my edits as 'meddling with articles' is uncivil. I have written several articles on Wikipedia and have spent a considerable amount of time attributing content on Robert Mugabe. Please provide a single instance in which I have removed references. The grand total of fact tags I have added on Rhodesian Front and Ahrn Palley comes out to two. That's not exactly "countless." Calling me a recalcitrant is uncivil at best and a personal attack at worst. Perspicacite 05:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I see yesterday you referred to Mr Tan's edits on William Light as "idiocy in action."[4] On Pookie (vehicle) you said, "idiots who put these banners in should be shot."[5] On May 7 you said, "remove idiot fact template (whoever invented these should be shot) and fix."[6] And, of course, calling me a "conceited snake who pretends to be civil for show."[7] These are all violations of Wikipedia's civility policy. Perspicacite 05:55, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The diffs I have provided are all in the last two weeks. WP:STALK says you cannot follow users onto other pages and harass them there. Providing diffs is in no way a violation of WP:STALK. Such conduct (providing diffs) is expected on RfCs, AfDs, RfAs, WP:AN boards, et cetera. If you prefer I could just post some of your diffs to WP:AN/I and call it a day. That certainly works for me. Perspicacite 06:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I have also noticed my watchlist busy with Perspicacite's edits. Mostly copyedits, I think it is a valuable contribution. I know Michael also from previous Rhodesia-related articles. It may appear that Perspicacite is new on the block, but I think civility is in order. Wizzy…☎ 08:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Hilltophoods hardroad.jpg)

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Maps

Yes I can take screendumps or send you the PDFs later on this evening if you wish. All is well - everything is so much more content and dosile on wikipedia without joestella around. Any suggestions for election pages? I am going to add an uncontested seats column to give more explanation to events like the 1954 election, anything else worthwhile? Timeshift 05:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, booths are included! The entire 1999 ref is 21mb - zipped, 12mb. Do you have MSN? Timeshift 07:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Haven't yet got your email and also sent you my msn 5 mins ago, not sure whats up... on a side note, uncontested seats have been added - all were contested after 1955. Timeshift 07:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you know where I can find lists of previous senators? I'd be interested to know exactly who the independent was that held the balance of power with Hall in the 1974 senate... Timeshift 07:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Before you post, yes I am aware, but let's not to try and draw attention to it shall we... ;-) Timeshift 17:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Pyne old boy.jpg

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 22:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Longhair\^talk 22:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of lame image deletions, how do you think recently uploaded images will hold in terms of their rationale? All the PMs are looking quite good now, and I quite like that photo of Rann and Dunstan... Timeshift 10:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

MATS

Nice draft, I hadn't realised someone else was already most of the way through this. Do you have any other sources other than the two cited on the page? I am quite sure the Dunstan Government did sell off most of the South Road corridor (someone must have!) but can't seem to find any source for it. State library time perhaps?--Yeti Hunter 11:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

So you reckon it was Bannon who nerfed MATS... interesting. I'm on very much first name terms with JB. I wonder how I could manage to bring that up in conversation without it being awkward ("so this South Road Underpass they're talking about... whatever happened to that MATS thing I heard about on Wikipedia?"). Obviously it'd be completely OR, but interesting nonetheless.--Yeti Hunter 14:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dunstan

AFAIK he became premier in 1967, not opp leader, and in regards to elections in 1967 and 1970, what elections in 1967? That whole bit really confuses me, i'm in need of some enlightenment on this issue. Timeshift 03:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

MJD26

Well hello there! I suppose I have to comment here now that you killed my edits on the Adam Internet wiki! And I'll even be nice and sig it for you. Mjd26 11:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

AB (food)

Thanks for finding the article on the AB Michael. Can you please tell me how you found the article and and on which database so I can put them on the AB article. Thanks. Friend of the ab 03:16, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Can people who are not uni students access it? I have a friend who is still at AU. Is it the a1xxxxxx number or the 15xxxxxxxxR number? Friend of the ab 04:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, thought you were at AU, do I need to find a friend from UniSA? Friend of the ab 04:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Michael, re: the article you quoted on the AB (food) deletion page, would you be at all willing to assist us in rewriting the article, including references to the reliable sources you have found? It is my profound belief that this South Aussie icon should be noted in the wikipedia. Feel free to drop by and leave a message ABVS1936 05:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Michael, regarding that link you gave me to the elibrary, do you have to be a UniSA student to access it? Friend of the ab 10:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you tell me which library you are a part of that allows you to acces this website. Thanks. Friend of the ab 10:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Passing through

Hey Michael. Is everything all right? You seem a little irritable today. Regards, --cj | talk 15:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Good to hear. I think I've done a bit of the same the last few weeks. It's a horrid time of year...--cj | talk 15:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Impressive

Just been a-snoopin' around all your articles—well done! I'm enjoying all these reads on rather abstract topics, and when the time comes, wouldn't mind helping make Trams in Adelaide an FA. Cheers, Michael ^talk 10:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the look. I've spent a month or so absent from here - one of those times when a promotion means 'where did free time go?' intervened. I've got enough material to finish it, now just to find the time - and tame in my clunky prose ! - Peripitus (Talk) 10:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Rhodesia in the '50s

Hey,

If you are interested in writing about Rhodesian history in the '50s, take a look at the history sections for the Rhodesia page. The history for 1890-1965 is highly lacking in sources and goes into little depth. Eventually someone should create individual articles for different periods in the history of Rhodesia. On a side note, I would appreciate it if you would not refer to TomasBat as "shit." It's not very nice. Perspicacite 03:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Rhodesia_dak3.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Rhodesia_dak3.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Iamunknown 23:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

A favor?

It's really good to see you actively writing articles again - Roy Welensky looks great, and your Rhodesian Bush War draft is shaping up really well.

I was just wondering if you might be able to help me out, however. I've been trying to get lists of members for recent state parliaments, and I've succeeded in just about every state - except South Australia. I can't even seem to find a list of members for the 1997-2002 parliament. Would you have any idea where I might be able to find some of these? Rebecca 12:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the Jaensch book - I hadn't heard of it, and it looks really useful. Unfortunately the university doesn't appear to have a copy, but the National Library does, so I'll see if I can get hold of it once I get back to Canberra. Rebecca 15:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

My sources

...are primarily the historical TNYT and TIME magazine archives online. I have many books on the country but in some cases I am using online books. I do not use Google Books previews because the context is unclear. Perspicacite 06:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I like Muzorewa and Mutambara. Not a fan of Mugabe or Smith. If you find the article on Peter Walls to be too skewed then add balance - just source your contributions. Perspicacite 06:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

RENAMO

I am assuming this[8] was a mistake and not an act of masochism. Perspicacite 21:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Australian Democrats page

Hi Michael, there's some wildly inaccurate stuff that's been posted on this page. All very opinionated and some slander. You said way back in January that you were about to write some Early History stuff? I have no idea, really, about wikipedia, but I swear this page should be marked "disputed" or something...Helloquestionmark 10:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Awards

The beautiful ever-spinning star I gave you! It's gone! Timeshift 08:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Normally i'd agree i'm special but that bloody Hewson pic... i've lost the battle but I haven't lost the war... :P PS: I really like that Dunstan/Rann pic... I just wonder what Dunstan would say if he saw Rann in power. Timeshift 14:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Why would Rann take an ideological stance over pragmatism? This is Media Mike we're talking about... it makes the polls looks nice but we may as well just have a progressive state Liberal government (but I don't see that any time soon either) for the fat lot of good state Labor does these days... Timeshift 02:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Your guess is as good as mine. What are MHS's principles? Timeshift 03:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't agree with you more. Whatever they stand for though, Labor is doing a far better job in the polls state and federally. I tend to look at politics like this. Menzies and Whitlam federally, Playford and Dunstan state-wise. They stood for something and rammed though what they thought was in the best interest. Since then I think despite what a lot of people say we really do have it good, and what we debate about today would be nothing compared to what other countries have to deal with. That said, Howard has no social conscience and his economic credibility is flying out the window with Fraser Costello and now Hewson causing trouble for the coalition. It will take Labor to stuff themselves up this coming election, the Liberals are too far gone. Timeshift 03:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

SA opposition leaders

I know i've seen it somewhere, do you know where I can find the names of state opposition leaders prior to 1965? Timeshift 04:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Have I hit a raw nerve by any chance? :P Read the social progressive wiki page - it sounds very much like Dunstan's sort of ideology...... Timeshift 05:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

How is attaching social progressivism making it more positive when it is what someone is unless you're feel that social progressivism is indeed a positive thing? Food for thought... Timeshift 05:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits

Politics fatigue? Or have we done SA politics to death? :P Timeshift 14:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Australian Democrats :-) Timeshift 01:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH... BLOODY LOSERS WHO HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.... Timeshift 10:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

For your general willingness to assist me and others, particularly on political articles and when disputes arise. Your level-headed support on issues whether they be in my favour or against my favour are still always appreciated, especially from another South Australian. It's nice to receive support on issues when they arise, especially seeing as we come from different sides of the political fence. Thanks. Timeshift 05:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

just a small note, i moved it from where it was placed but i didn't provide an edit summary because i r clumsy and hit the save page button like the caveman i really am.--JWJW ^Talk Long Live Esperanza! :) 05:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Singapore

Sengkang reverted your edit to Singapore. Perspicacite 05:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Roy Welensky

Well done. I should pop into FAC more often. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Way to "trim" your page

An interesting haircut of your page. Citing the en-masse removale of the vast majority of your user page as a "Trim" is kind of funny. You too so much pride in your vast and opinionated user page; what happened? Mjd26 15:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Whats wrong with this staement?

Family First are against abortion they are [Pro life] not [Pro choice]

apart from the fact you dont like facts about FFP being revieled?

there official website says they are opposed to abortion, check it before you go vandalising pages, maybe try joing a discussion for once?--203.87.127.18 11:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The quality of your spelling seems to reflect the quality of your behaviour. Michael ^talk 11:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Have your 2c at John Howard

Even you must agree that poster is at best lacking source and at worst a troll with non-neutral and NPOV intentions. Sigh, for ages nothing is questioned then suddenly theres a mad rush of criticism all over auspolitics. Timeshift 11:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Jollies? Whatever are you talking about? Should my mind be in the gutter at the moment or are my thoughts misplaced? Timeshift 12:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm with you now. I thought you may have been referring to certain removed userboxes :P Timeshift 12:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

FYI - http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22191355-5006301,00.html - :D (10 times what was spent in 2004? Geez ALP!!) Timeshift 06:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Bill Heffernan

Could do with serious fixup. I was wondering if this guy's career interests you. Oh, and I find the guy to be pretty hopeless (even for a non left winger)single purpose attack dog, but still, the article isn't in an acceptable state. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)