Proposed changes Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Summer 2017

1.a. As the title of this article specifies Oxyrhynchus PAPYRI, I first of all propose that we redirect people who want a more general treatment to go to the main Oxyrhynchus entry - where we should also move references, in the first paragraph, to vellum and paper.

1.b. Grab statement regarding the lion's share of the papyri subject matter (90% administrative documents, NOT literature) from main entry and specify ^{[citation needed]} for now, even though I have heard it from the mouth of a recognized authority, it's on the Next Three Things list - unless someone else has it at the ready.

1.c. Reference to “Greek texts”, meaning Pindar, Sappho etc should be changed to something that doesn't imply that the Christian texts were in some language other than Greek. I propose "Pagan texts" - to include both Greek and Latin (Livy & Ovid, for instance) - as reflected in the proposed new outline (see below).

2. Change the headline now reading "Theological Manuscripts" to "Christian Manuscripts" as it implies that Pagan Manuscripts are not Theological, which is incorrect.

3. Change "Homer" headline to Pagan Manuscripts and move the 3 paragraphs in the summary statement about Pagan literature to that subheading (with separate subheadings for Greek and Latin (much later) literature.

4. Add a headline for Practical Manuals (?) - for texts like Euclid and the text.

The Order of Importance is thus proposed to be:

1. The Lion's share of the findings (Public & Private Documents)

2. Pagan Literature (BC: Before the Christian Era)

3. Christian Literature (AD: After the Birth of Christ)

4. Practical Texts?

This, I believe, will be a good start.

Proposed new opening summary

Changes indicated in bold.

Main entry: Oxyrhynchus

The Oxyrhynchus Papyri are a group of manuscripts discovered during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries by archaeologists beginning with Bernard Pyne Grenfell and Arthur Surridge Hunt at an ancient rubbish dump near Oxyrhynchus in Egypt (28°32′N 30°40′E, modern el-Bahnasa). The manuscripts date from the 1st century AD, when Egypt became part of the Roman economy to as late as the 7th century AD, when Egypt became part of the Islamic economy.

Although much of the early excitement was generated by literary works in both Greek and Latin, of the many thousands of papyri excavated from Oxyrhynchus, only an estimated 10% were literary {citation needed}. The lion’s share of the papyri found consist of public and private documents: codes, edicts, registers, official correspondence, census-returns, tax-assessments, petitions, court-records, sales, leases, wills, bills, accounts, inventories, horoscopes, and private letters.

Grenfell & Hunt originally sent their findings to the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford University, but Oxyrhynchus Papyri today are located in institutions all over the world. (Some work would be done here to verify where significant holdings are located and where ongoing research is currently unfolding - but failing that we can at least grab 3 or 4 locations from the tables detailing holdings of Christian texts.)

Fb2ts (talk) 13:14, 6 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Introductory Summary - The Great Wall (film)

I would like to make some changes, with all due respect, to the article's introductory summary by adding:

The fact that the screenplay was by big name Hollywood industry veterans (Tony Gilroy/ Bourne films & Doug Miro/Narcos).

The fact that both Zhang Yimou and Matt Damon stated that they accepted to work on the project for the chance to work together (per Hollywood Reporter).

The astounding fact that a relatively unknown actress was cast on par with Damon's character (as Supreme Leader of China's Secret Army!!!), while industry veteran Andy Lau and hottest rising star Eddie Peng were given supporting and bit parts respectively.

The fact that the costume design was done by Mayes C. Rubeo of Apocalypto and Avatar fame. Given her credentials, it is CRAZY that she doesn't have an English language wiki entry as of this writing. Avatar is currently NUMBER ONE on the list of All Time Worldwide Box Office hits.

ALSO, in Controversy

unless a quoted source specifically uses the modifier "white", we should be saying European or European-American, when that's what we mean. Even to say "western", when we mean indigenous or diasporic European, is grossly inaccurate -- since both Europe and the Americas have also many ethnic African/Asian citizens -- and Australia is close to as far east as you can go on the map.

now that we have all seen the film, it seems interesting to note that, particularly in the context of allegations of White Supremacism, there was a clear reference, in the climax of the film, to Moby Dick and how best to hunt a whale. This is surely a detail that contributes significantly to discussion about the film's relative standing as a "tentpole" for the future of global film.

Fb2ts (talk) 16:12, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Zhang Yimou

The birthdate of Zhang Yimou was listed as November 14, 1951 in the article until December 24 last year when an IP-user changed it to April 2, 1950 without further explanation. You can see the edit here. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zhang_Yimou&diff=756467819&oldid=756467757. The IP hasn't mae ay other edits neither before or after. Take a look at other language versions you will see that none lists April 2, 1950 as his birthday. DrKilleMoff (talk) 04:31, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you google "Zhang Yimou birthday", you will find an article dated April 3rd, 2015 (a Friday) at china.org.cn and the first sentence says, "Chinese director Zhang Yimou celebrated his 65th birthday with his wife and children on Thursday." If you look further at China.org's about page, you will see, "The authorized government portal site to China, China.org.cn is published under the auspices of the State Council Information Office and the China International Publishing Group (CIPG) in Beijing." 2015-65=1950, right?

That seems like a pretty robust source to me . . . Perhaps said ip user was the State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China -- and they haven't bothered to get a wiki account (yet). Or hey, maybe it was Zhang Yimou himself!

Whoever pulled the November exploit made it into the imdb's "official" record too. Sheesh! That wasn't you, was it? Meanwhile, google's still hanging on, although they could very well be getting their data from the wiki and this particular dispute has yet to stabilize.

A good reminder never to trust anything you read on the internet. Triple check anything that really matters, from as close as you can get to the horse's mouth, and use your local library. I once checked a citation from wikipedia and it sent me to the index of a book in the library where said "factoid" wasn't even mentioned. Nada. Zip. No mention whatsover of alleged factoid. Fb2ts (talk) 15:47, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ALSO: Please accept my apologies for not pointing this out the last time. I've never undone anything before. I will be wiser going forward. Fb2ts (talk) 15:58, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I will triple check with my library's who's who - they're sure to have it. And I'll confirm what I find. OK? Fb2ts (talk) 16:02, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Plot Thickens

The reference librarian at what we used to think was the world's first public library got back to us already.

The 2016 Marquis Who's Who in the World gives Zhang Yimou's date of birth as 11-14-1951. The International Dictionary of Films and Filmmakers gives 11-14-1950. The New Biographical Dictionary of Film and the Historical Dictionary of Chinese Cinema only give a year of birth, but both give 1951. The introduction to Zhang Yimou: Interviews also gives the 11-14-1951 date, citing, apparently, Berry's Perspectives on Chinese Cinema. Most of the reference works to which the BPL offers electronic access reproduce the 11-14-1951 date, but some express uncertainty by giving the year as 1950/1951.

The email continues:

The ideal source if extant would be some kind of official birth record; see this article and the attached entry from the 2009 International Vital Records Handbook for some historical information and recommendations for pursuing Chinese vital records.

What do you think? Is that funny or what? The "attached entry" suggests that we contact

The Ministry of Public Security (Snail Mail in Beijing) - I'm inclined to Circular File this one.
The Genealogical Research Center at the the Shanghai Library - where they give an email address. That seems like a good lead.
The Embassy of the People's Republic of China in Washington, DC (202) 328-2500 . . . hmmmm. I admit to being kinda curious.

And then we could see if we can get some kind of feedback from Zhang Yimou's wife, in lieu of an "Official Birth Record". Just because a self-described Official Outlet of the PRC says they got the date from her Chinese equivalent of a Facebook page, complete with a picture and what appear to be an aMAZingly fancy birthday cake, doesn't prove that it's REALLY Zhang Yimou's Wife's Chinese equivalent of a Facebook page - web security, photoshop and elaborate hoaxes being what they are - and even if it was her, she could be lying, for some reason, and trying to suggest that her husband is older than he actually is.

But then, maybe all those other sources just got the date from imdb... or Wikipedia before December 24, 2016.

Even though Google is currently giving the April 2, 1950 birthdate, maybe they just got it from Wikipedia - AFTER December 24, 2016.

Fb2ts (talk) 14:24, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anonimo Gaddiano

Added an entry for Anonimo Gaddiano, because when I googled it, the only reference was on the Italian Wiki. I just translated the Italian entry pretty much verbatim. Fb2ts (talk) 21:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Added a citation for the real identity of Anonimo, and cited a paper by a Dutch Academic -- which I then rather clumsily also added to the Italian Wikipedia.Fb2ts (talk) 11:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On the nomination of Anonimo Gaddiano entry for Did You Know . . .

Unfortunately, the English language Anonima Gaddiano article is currently sporting egregious inaccuracies that are pending resolution -- most notably two in the very first sentence.

1. Anonimo was used to refer to the text's alleged author by the author who is primarily quoted, one might even say paraphrased, in the Wikipedia entry. Said author (Bouk Wierda) acknowledges that they have done this, in footnote [6] of their paper, but by the end of the same paper, said author goes ahead and accepts their own hypothesis -- based on two handwriting samples (ie, the "scholarship" is a bit goofy). Meanwhile, all other texts, and indeed in the Wierda text itself, Anonimo Gaddiano is universally referred as a manuscript.

See also the entries for Anonimo Gaddiano in both the Italian and French versions (at least last time I checked).

2. Furthermore, attempts to locate the use of Anonima Fiorentina as an alternative name for the Anonimo Gaddiano manuscript comes up with only one mention (on the internet, at least), and that mention clearly states that Anonima Fiorentino is an "Augustinian".

Not only is Anonimo Gaddiano not a person, it would appear not to be a manuscript commonly referred to as Anonimo Fiorentino either. See the article's talk page.Fb2ts (talk) 13:29, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Anonimo Gaddiano

On 28 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Anonimo Gaddiano, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the brief biographies of Italian artists by the Anonimo Gaddiano were written before Vasari's Lives of 1550, but not published until 1892? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Anonimo Gaddiano. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Anonimo Gaddiano), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:03, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So much for my article about a manuscript. Live and learn. Fb2ts (talk) 09:56, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Peace of God

Wikipedia's abandoned Peace of God entry has been rated as Start-Class and of Low-importance. Start-Class yes, Low importance most definitely not. Dropped a line to see if anyone's currently vested. It looks like it's been a decade since anyone cared.

In the meantime, went to the Middle Ages Project and added the etymology for mediaeval - it's a contraction of medium aevum, which itself was a term coined in the fifteenth century. It means the middle age. Seems like that should be one of the first things one picks up when engaging with the wonderful world of Medieval Studies.

Petrarch is generally credited with coining the periodization of a middle age, between the fall of the Roman Empire in 410 AD and his own time (1304-1374), which he called an "age of darkness".

Not sure where it makes sense to put that in, just making a note of it for future reference. Fb2ts (talk) 14:53, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The Possessive Years Problem

From the Seven Years War talk page - the latest goofiness extravaganza at Wikipedia English Fb2ts (talk) 14:21, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Move

About 13 years ago, a discussion was had on whether to move this from Seven Years' War--> to Seven Years War. The discussion was not greatly attended, but there were somewhere from six to ten editors commenting, and the it a pretty even split, resulting in No Consensus on the move. Would anyone be up to re-opening this? I personally have never seen the apostrophe anywhere, except on Wikipedia, but I wonder if this is an Americentric viewpoint. Anyone? Un school 15:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Apostrophe as used here is standard and appropriate in British English see for example the | Encyclopedia Britannica Article . Ive read the | Archived Discussion and see no reason to reopen the issue. Mediatech492 (talk) 16:34, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That being said, if you're writing a paper or a book about a war that spanned seven years and you don't think that war belonged to those years, you should feel free to make that clear with your spelling. If your publisher/professor gets huffy, you can point them to spelling conventions at Routledge (UK) and/or Norton (US). And that's just for the Seven Years War (that war that took seven years (I have never heard of a year taking a war, now that I think of it, but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that a year couldn't possess a war -- if you really wanted to be a poet about it.)). If you happen to be writing a paper or a book on the Hundred Years War, you can tell your prof/publisher that you've opted to use the Yale University Press (US) / Penguin Books (UK) convention. Likewise, if you're writing something about the Thirty Years War, you can say you're using Harvard University's (Belknap Press (US)) rules. Plenty of respectable folk'll be in that corner with you. No worries. Fb2ts (talk) 17:35, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Out of curiosity, I culled the top ten publications -- from a New England Public Library Catalog -- to see what MOST sourses argue in this mini war of possession.

. The Hundred Years War - 8 say wars take years, 2 say years take wars.
. The Thirty Years War - 6 say wars take years, 4 say years take wars.
. The Seven Years War - 4 say wars take years, 6 say years take wars.

That's still 18 to 12 in favor of wars taking years, rather than vice versa.

MOST sources argue that years take wars, NOT vice versa.

Not sure why the wiki police decided to go with the loosing team.

I'd be interested to get a survey of the top ten titles from a Merry Old England Library Catalog. From where I sit, it does not appear to be an exclusively Anglo-American goofiness.

Fb2ts (talk) 13:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be interested to get a survey of the top ten titles from a Merry Old England Library Catalog. From where I sit, it does not appear to be an exclusively Anglo-American goofiness.

Fb2ts (talk) 13:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Economics

Circular flow Mokoena Tshepo (talk) 19:11, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is Wikipedia a White Male Supremacist Publication?

How about we make a conscious decision not to have nothing but white guys (not to mention nothing but white guys pictured) on the front page? Mr. Assassinated Ethiopian does not adequately balance out the Implicit Associations triggered. It's 2019 guys, we need to do better than that.Fb2ts (talk) 09:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

The main page content is created by separate sections of the community. No one person oversees the overall balance. Sometimes we might end up with four images of women. It's just chance. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:43, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Like I said, it's 2019. If we can't get a human or two to watch the front page, then how do we overhaul the system to curate the evolution? We'd have to tag for ethnicity and gender, right? Male, Female, African, American (not European American), Asian, Australian (not European Australian) and European. It's more than a paragraph in the Manual, I'm sure. But impossible? So impossible that we can't even think about it? Fb2ts (talk) 10:00, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

If you don't like what is posted to the Main Page for whatever reason, you should participate in the processes that determine what goes on it. No need for an overhaul or affirmative action program. 331dot (talk) 10:08, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Even apart from that the OP is completely wrong that we have "nothing but white guys... on the front page", as the featured items include Panggilan Darah, Wei Shoukun, Eunice Eloisae Gibbs Allyn, Tadao Takashima, Etika and Bahia Bakari. Hut 8.5 10:10, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Point taken. Thank you. I feel better now. Fb2ts (talk) 10:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

The main page is mostly just reflective of the material available to it at that time. If you want a change, Fb2ts, go create some brilliant featured pictures of non-white subjects, write some new articles for inclusion in Did You Know, a featured article, or some well-written date-specific topics, for inclusion in "on this day". Don't complain, just get busy! — Amakuru (talk) 10:12, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes. That's the way to approach the problem, for sure. Thank you. Fb2ts (talk) 10:24, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Also, why do Ambachew Mekonnen and Se'are Mekonnen not count? Seems like a bit of a White Male Supremacist opinion there... Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes. White. Not Male. True that. Fb2ts (talk) 10:51, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

What do we need to do to replace that picture of Se'are Mekonnen with one of Carola Rackete? Is it a question of getting an image marked for reuse/modification? Fb2ts (talk) 10:30, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Fb2ts, I think what you're asking is why is the Carola Rackete story not included in the news?

You can suggest ITN stories at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates ETA:
But it doesn't look like we have a photo of Rackete; someone needs to upload one they own themselves at Wikimedia (ec) Fb2ts, that would be a first step.
Then you have to nominate a blurb about a current news event at WP:ITNC to go with it.

Or you can wait 14 hours for the white guys to be replaced by the British flag, a plate of poutine, a walkman, Edgar Allan Poe and an Eastern grey squirrel. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:52, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

I must read the ITN page. That much is clear. :-)

There's no picture of Se'are Mekonnen on their page - and Google doesn't have one. I suppose it will show up tomorrow. Is it too noobie to ask how I look to see where that picture came from? How does your average joe editor get their hands on an image like that? Fb2ts (talk) 11:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Flickr. They got it from Flickr. Interesting . . . So much to learn . . . Fb2ts (talk) 12:05, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

I have left a message on your talk page. If you have more questions feel free to ask there. You can get my attention by typing @Coffeeandcrumbs:Fb2ts (talk) 10:18, 2 July 2019 (UTC) but I will be watching your talk page for a while if you need assistance. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I've been deleting those cookies for years. :-) I hope it's not too rude. It's been years (and several avatars) since someone thought I needed a plate of 'em. I appreciate your support. Fb2ts (talk) 14:24, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Deleted from Main Talk Page on 20:45, 30 June 2019 by CLCStudent and salvaged by fb2ts FTR Fb2ts (talk) 10:18, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Someone restored it. Interesting.Fb2ts (talk) 21:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fb2ts, thanks for raising this issue, which is part of a class of such perennial problems. I agree that this is a problem and I would be open to novel solutions. However, ultimately, it comes down to what articles qualify and that is affected by what editors are interested in. This is why, in my view, it is important that we actively promote a diversity of editors and encourage improvement of underrepresented topics. If you have any specific policy proposals or need any help getting specific articles to the main page, I'd be happy to help. StudiesWorld (talk) 01:30, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I AM thinking about this and am very happy to see that I am not alone. The current See Also list of pages to read (not just for me, but for anyone interested in evolving ITN bias mapping) looks like this:

I have also added my name to the Countering Systemic Bias members page posing the question : How can we systemically model and evolve the gender/ethnicity/economic bias of Wikipedia's Front Page?

UNFORTUNATELY, people have not been systematic about date stamping. Is there a reason that it might not be okay for me to add a line at the top of the page asking people to date stamp their registration? Assuming that everyone who's still active is watching the page, what do you think, would that get currently actively interested parties to do that?

They don't all specify exactly what they're interested in either. That would also be helpful.

Is there a page where we can see a History of ITN headlines and watch/study patterns? Fb2ts (talk) 11:43, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

and and AND - I've added a Countering Systemic Bias userbox to my profile page. Is there a userbox for people interested in evolving ITN metrics specifically? Fb2ts (talk) 12:07, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.[user:isanae|Isa] (talk) 17:56, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Takeaway

The reason the Wiki's Front Page is dominated by ethnic European male activity, to the extent that it is, is because stories about other genders and other ethnicities don't get suggested.

The reason we don't see pictures on the front page of the beautiful young women doing amazing things (making history) is because it's basically just downright dangerous to deploy a zero protections image of yourself, if you're a beautiful young woman doing controversial things in this day and age.

. . .

I'd love to see a WikiWatch page that systematically published who got what Attention Real Estate - tracking by gender and ethnicity and or object/thingness (eg poutine). And. Whether or not they had died a natural death at the time of publication. Monthly Summary Reports, with pie and bar charts. And the pictures, just the pictures. I'd love to be able to just scroll through the pictures of the day - so that we could see how many days a given picture/gender/ethnicity/topic got stuck on the front page for how many days straight (and in total).

That would be unmanageable on any MSM streamer, but quite doable for Wikipedia's Front Page.

Things I'd like to see on the Did You Know, In The News sections, which I'm not likely to get around to but I might:

The Garbage Wars

OP stands for Overall Position, I did not know that. Fb2ts (talk) 10:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OP stands for Original Poster (i.e. you in this case). --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:16, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion "Closed"

Frozen for posterity (maybe), on the Front page talk page, with the following anthropologically interesting 'splanation:

Whatever contentious material may have been on the main page, it's long gone.

If you have questions about individual WikiProjects, you should ask on their talk page.

As for revision history, see WP:FA and WP:ITN.

[user:isanae|Isa] (talk) 17:56, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Isa's user page currently says this, and only this:

Committed identity: 069606f279d298965fac4f70d87ffe60c242e20357e6cd038d097e3263df15525ff75b9e01ac8bea2c4da7bde5459a8c3e348726b90ba854e050b51a24c7e870 is a SHA-512 commitment to this user's real-life identity.

I would be interested in hearing more about this new method for anonymizing one's identity. That's 128 characters! If anyone can give me the 101 on that, that would be great.

SHA stands for Secure Hash Algorithm. More on that here. The Secure Hash Algorithms are a family of cryptographic hash functions published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) as a U.S. Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS). Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS) are publicly announced standards developed by the United States federal government for use in computer systems by non-military government agencies and government contractors.

The other thing featured on Isa's talk page is a link to a Help Archiving a talk page. Wikipedia Specializations continue to boggle my mind.

Meanwhile: I agree that the discussion needs to be continued elsewhere and am looking forward to it. Fb2ts (talk) 13:00, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For information about the committed identity, see WP:Committed identity. The link to Archiving is not about specialization, it is a link to explain the archives that are linked to in the box. I hope that helps. StudiesWorld (talk) 13:06, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link. Very informative. I have renewed respect for the amount of work and tenacity that goes into stabilizing this amazing resource. Fb2ts (talk) 15:02, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi!

I closed the discussion because it did not concern the main page any more. The main page's talk page is on the watchlist of countless editors and we try to keep the discussions relevant as much as possible.
The long string of characters on my user page is called a hash. I generated it by feeding a secret piece of text that I chose into an algorithm called SHA-512. Given this hash, it is almost impossible to find the text I used to generate it. Therefore, only I can produce this secret text and once I reveal it, someone else can generate the hash again and verify that it matches what's on my user page. So, if my account gets hijacked, I can show the secret text to prove my identity. This is what's called a committed identity on Wikipedia, and you will find it on many user pages. The reason that's all there is on my user page is because I don't have much to say about me.
The link about archiving is part of a box that you can expand by clicking "[show]". For now, it will only show one page titled "1", which links to User_talk:Isanae/Archive_1, where I archive the various discussions from my talk page.

As you can see, there is nothing nefarious about me :). Feel free to ping me if you have any other questions. Happy editing! Isa (talk) 23:22, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Coffeeandcrumbs:I am realizing that I need to move this discussion from the front page to it's own home (so that it can continue without overwhelming the front page - and leave a little placeholder text to forward interested parties to an ongoing discussion (somewhere else). But. I'm not sure that WMS Bias is the vector I want to go with. I'm actually more concerned about the Garbage Wars. ITN isn't just WMS bias, it's predatory economy bias - a curated version of it, but nevertheless. So. I'm still thinking about this but maybe I should hurry up and just move that big block and put in a shorter redirect paragraph that I can edit/add to later? I have a monster to do item on my desk right now (not wiki related) but this ticket is up next. Fb2ts (talk) 12:07, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Live and learn some more. The (admittedly outsized) placeholder has been wiped off the map. Perhaps because someone opened another thread joking about the fact that the Women's FIFA win was on the Front Page and did that mean that Wikipedia was a White Female Supremacist Publication. One can, of course, see how this convo would continue to overwhelm the front page - as I discovered the vacuum when I went to respond :

This World Cup, 24 teams competed in France for their share of $30 million in prize money from FIFA — which is just 7.5% of the Men's World Cup prize of $400 million...”

Women get $250,000 for their win. Men get $1.1 million.

So yes. I can respect the decision.

Note that the WP gave me the entire weekend to move the conversation and I was just too slow on the uptake. But. Here's what's interesting here: Did I receive notification that the conversation had been deleted? No. I did not. So we don't necessarily get notified of changes. OR. Maybe the server is just being slow. Let's wait 24 hours and see. Really, it must be a royal PITA to manage controversy at the wiki. Fb2ts (talk) 11:23, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

aha! it's been autoarchived. Fb2ts (talk) 18:08, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mona Lisa and The Bolivian

This looks like a story worth unfolding. Someone decided that the Bolivian national who vandalized the Mona Lisa back in 1956 should have their name erased from history -- or at least from the Wikipedia article (which turns out to be one of the few mentions of the gesture on the web (apart from a few articles on the English language Google search that are probably referencing the wiki without citing their source)).

Because:

At first I thought, "Why would a Bolivian man travel all the way to France to throw a stone at the Mona Lisa?" But then I realized - it was painted around the same time that Europe began to colonize Bolivia -- a truly shameful affair that deserves a lot more room in the history books, as well as the wiki. What do we know about Ugo Ungaza Villegas? Apart from what is recorded in Vandalism of art?

In the meantime, we should certainly mention him by name. Its removal on a prior occasion was itself an act of vandalism. I have restored it.

Meanwhile, I could find no mention of the painting having since been restored - so I have also removed the statement that it was restored, until someone can provide a citation (the citation given made no mention of any restoration). In fact, a better citation is needed for the original incident in question. I'm going to see what I can dig up from the peer reviewed literature. Fb2ts (talk) 09:49, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hello! Voting in the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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