User talk:Marie Paradox

Alternative aggression listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Alternative aggression. Since you had some involvement with the Alternative aggression redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Steel1943 (talk) 19:57, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Steve Down

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Gamergate controversy discretionary sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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Woodroar (talk) 15:12, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Your comments at NPOV noticeboard regarding Trans woman

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that some of your recent comments at WP:NPOVN seemed to actively discourage discussion of neutrality issues. It seemed your comments were intended to shut down discussion and suggestions from NPOVN regulars. Discussing such issues seems the entire point of the NPOV noticeboard. The comments which appeared aimed at shutting down discussion included: [1], [2], [3], [4] If discouraging input and discussion was not your intention, I just wanted to leave you a quick note to let you know it came across that way. Also, I’m not defending the editor with whom you appear to have had past dispute, but it seems the discussion has become quite lengthy [5], has involved multiple previously uninvolved editors, and the focus is now specifically on article content issues related to neutrality and clarity at this point, rather than one particular editor’s alleged behavior. If this editor continues to edit war or otherwise be disruptive, seems WP:AN3 or WP:ANI could be used, but could you please refrain from discouraging discussion of neutrality related issues at NPOVN? Thank you. DynaGirl (talk) 13:30, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

DynaGirl,

Regarding WP:AN3 and WP:ANI, all I will say for now is that I have been hoping that other editors and I can resolve our problems without seeking administrator intervention.

As for your request, the fact that you needed to go back more than 48 hours to find all my diffs except one in which I edited a previous comment ought to tell you a something about how willing I am to discourage other editors from participating in the discussion. You might also want to consider -- and you should not be blamed for not already knowing this -- I have been promoting the idea that (a) the editors at Trans woman put a POV lead tag at the top of the page, and (b) the tag should link to an appropriate section of the talk page so that people have an idea of what the dispute is about. Why? Well, the salient reason is that I think people who find the article should be made aware of the discussion at NPOV/N, even if I believe that the discussion is ill-advised.

And, yes, I said the discussion is ill-advised. Why? Well, to keep this from being more of a wall of text than it already is I will limit myself to one reason: It is not good for the Talk:Trans woman regulars who most want to change the lede. We should be acculturating them to Wikipedia policy and guidelines, including WP:DISCUSSION, WP:CONSENSUS, and perhaps most salient for this discussion WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. Editors who are already struggling with communicating effectively with their fellow editors (note that the editor who made the report did not even link to a relevant section of Talk:Trans woman despite what is prescribed at NPOV/N) should not be given the impression that they can solve their problems by sidestepping community processes and simply calling for a vote. This is especially true on a noticeboard people regularly feel serves no purpose. (Just take a look at the talk page, including archived discussion.) The end for Civil POV pushers is often either being "sanctioned for incivility" or "go[ing] . . . quietly" after becoming "disillusioned". I do not want to see either of these things happen.

One more thing, I ask that you take care when telling editors there is something wrong with diffs that are obviously votes. I might not like to see WP:NOTDEMOCRACY flouted, but if editors should insist on reducing a discussion to a series of votes, I will not look favorably on voter intimidation.

-- Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 16:39, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

@Marie Paradox:, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say you've been promoting POV tag. Edit history shows you actually removed POV tag from the trans woman page [6] in the midst of an ongoing and lengthy WP:NPOVN discussion in which numerous uninvolved editor have raised neutrality as well as clarity concerns. [7] DynaGirl (talk) 17:02, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

DynaGirl, could you refrain from making it difficult for me to assume good faith or more specifically assume that you are not cherry picking? The relevant talk page discussion is linked to in the very diff you just presented. If you look at that discussion or my recent comments to Userwoman, you will see my explanation: I removed the tag because (a) it was not a POV lead tag, and to date the discussion has focused on the lead (even the report at NPOV/N was strictly about the lead), and (b) it does not link to a specific section of the talk page and thus does not do much to guide readers into discussion about what is being disputed. I have said that I would accept such an edit even if the discussion linked to lacked a source that I felt was reliable. I fully expected that someone would insert a POV lead tag with a link to a relevant discussion on the talk page, and that would be the end of it. Frankly, I am baffled that the people who most vocally express POV concerns would apparently rather see no POV tag on the page than accept a compromise. -- Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 17:40, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

I see you stated on talk you removed general POV tag saying it should be POV lead tag instead but didn't replace it with POV lead tag, but instead removed it outright. I've commented on talk:Trans woman with respect to the tag issue if you'd like to discuss there. DynaGirl (talk) 17:58, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

DynaGirl, thank you for letting me know. I have replied there. -- Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 18:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

• I saw your comment on Talk:Trans woman. Consensus building can be tiresome at times, but I wanted to let you know that your contributions and your voice are valued, and I don't think I am alone in saying that I certainly would not want to see you back down from editing because of some silly wiki drama like this. Have this tiny barnstar: — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 14:04, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Insertcleverphrasehere. Your tiny barnstar means a lot to me! -- Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 14:46, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mohammad bin Salman

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography

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