User talk:NYMFan69-86/Archive 1

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Hello, NYMFan69-86! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Button sig.png or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Welcome to the World of Wikipedia and best of luck on your Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2009. Happy editing! --JimmyButler (talk) 17:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
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Topic idea

North Carolina official biological specimens Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 02:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Citation Problems

Hey I'm working on citations but on most websites I can't find an author, ID, or date archived. Should I just find all the information a possibly can for now and see if I can figure out the rest later?--OomnyMalchick (talk) 12:39, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey Dom, I'm having problems with the references in the reproduction section. For some reason one of the references was copied 3 or 4 extra times to the reference section. I tried tweaking it numerous times, but I can't seem to fix it. --Merry Beth (talk) 02:52, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Lab Graph

Gracias, Dom.Lisa Anne93 (talk) 02:22, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm all alone, there's nobody here beside meeeeee...*continues singing off key*

So where are your project buddies? --Yohmom (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

What?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

My buddies are here.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Adding plants related to bog turtles...

Hey Dom, I took a look at Rob's reference. I already had a few of the plants listed in the habitat section, but I think that it would be fine to add more.--Merry Beth (talk) 21:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, for now I would add it to the habitat section, then if the peer reviewers think that we should change it to a new section then we can do that. Also, I read over the whole page and was wondering if we need to restate the bog turtle's predators in the threats section.--Merry Beth (talk) 23:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


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Reference Check

I went through my sections and changed the wording in a couple of sentences and fixed 1 or 2 links. I think all of the information was with the correct references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merry Beth (talkcontribs) 06:27, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think the information was correctly linked too. I went through my sections, cleaned up the wording, and we have no more links to disambiguated pages. I think we have 'til tomorrow (7th) to submit for GA.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)


Just a tip: it is much easier for everyone involved if you write what issues have been addressed on the GA page. A simple "Done" or "Fixed" under the suggestions should work. --Yohmom (talk) 00:22, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I was gonna wait until all of it was done, but I guess people should know what has been addressed as I go through, thank you.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 15:40, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

GA Revisions

Ok I did the habitat/distribution and behavior section changes so I think they should be good now. As for the test... I was supposed to be there to take it but my first period teacher signed me up to take the ASVAB test without even mentioning it to me then told me i had to go when I walked into class. I guess I will make up the test sometime this week but I'm deffinitely not looking forward to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merry Beth (talkcontribs) 21:07, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I heard other people talking about it, supposedly it was pretty easy but annoying. You didn't miss much other than the test, me and Rob finished with about twenty minutes left in class so we worked out who would do what and both started working on our things, I hope you are OK with what we said each person would do (although I guess you are since you already did it :o), but yeah, the test was crazy (I won't tell you any questions in case Mr. Butler sees this). Anyways be on your toes for people who make suggestions for us. Cheers!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 21:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Help and the like

I obviously can't go out of my way to add blocks of information, as they're still your articles (even though, of course, you aren't allowed to claim ownership). I'll be around for the next month or so, as January term is usually pretty cake, and classes are out as of Monday. Do you have any particular questions? If not, your best bet is to satisfy the GA conditions as quickly as possible (i.e. within the next few days) so that the reviewer doesn't lose interest. If you do, or you need help with anything, feel free to hit me up on here, and I should get back to you within a few hours. Your best bet for content questions is probably Yohmom, as she's at least dealt with the whole animal-centric review process before. But I'll be contributing or offering suggestions wherever I can. What're your deadlines? Strombollii (talk) 03:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC) (feel free to reply on here: I've got your talkpage on my watchlist now)

Strombollii isn't the only one lurking your talk page...Finals end on Thursday for me, and I'll probably be poking around more after then. Feel free to hit me up for questions too.
If you are sill trying to find articles, I've got mad access to scientific journals. If something you need is subscription or not floating around Carteret Co., I can probably get a copy from the University or email a PDF file of the article. --Yohmom (talk) 04:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Our deadlines are on this page (January 15th?). I've been asked to supply information regarding why the genus was changed from Clemmys to Clyptemys among other things (I ahve no idea why it was changed or where to look). I have a very generous reviewer giving corections, Talk:Bog turtle/GA1. I feel if I address all the concerns I may reach GA, I hope...--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 15:17, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Have you searched google scholar for journal articles on the turtle? This [[1]] lists the name as "Clemmys muhlenbergii." You might want to change it back. And I'd imagine that article has a wealth of information you could use... Strombollii (talk) 20:12, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh, if you can't open that (I'm on a University web server, so I don't know if you can from home), drop me an email at Strombollii (at) gmail (dot) com and I'll send you that pdf/any that you see and need. Strombollii (talk) 20:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I can open the article. Since JSTOR is very reliable, should make all instances of the latin name read Clemmys muhlenbergii? Thanks much for the article and concern.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:09, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, however trivial this may seem, I need major help with the imperial conversions (in the bog turtle article). Things like hectares, which I thought should be converted to acres and square kilometers (for the metric folk) need converting. I visited the article that explained how to do the conversions correctly, but I am still at a loss.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:09, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I would imagine: unless there's a story behind its name changing (I haven't had time to read the literature). And I'll look into it: AB might have more experience in that field, but I'll see what I can do. Strombollii (talk) 00:13, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Got journals?

I'm on a university web server, so I don't know if you can open this. If not, I can probably email you the PDF.

I don't know how much stuff you have already, but feel free to browse the Carolina catalog [2]. Some of it might be password protected or print. In both cases, I can probably email you the articles within a day or so. --Yohmom (talk) 23:24, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was able to open the PDF, thank you. It's very indepth, I am sure I can use it to solve all of my immediate problems.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 04:14, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey Dom, take a look at the GA section of the discussion page... Etrig and Strombollii left a couple of comments.--Merry Beth (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
Congratulations on your success in reaching GA status on the article Bog Turtle; you represent the AP Project with distinction! --JimmyButler (talk) 00:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Mr. Butler.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 12:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
This Barnstar has been moved to User:NYMFan69-86

Range Map/Photoshop

There are several photoshop programs available as free trial downloads online. If you are still stuck, I'm pretty sure I have a copy of Adobe's CS3 floating somewhere around the house; I could dig it out and see what I could do. --Yohmom (talk) 18:10, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Let me know if you don't hear back from User:Sarefo. I think he uses the GIMP to make all his range maps. I only know how to make them with Photoshop myself. I could probably whip one up for you if nothing else works out. Kaldari (talk) 18:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I left Sarefo the same message I left you and he/she hasn't said anything yet. But this was only a couple of days ago, so mabye Sarefo just hasn't seen it yet. If its like really easy for you, I would love it if you made one (but don't feel obligated to). This website has what appears to be a correct map of their range.
Thank you.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 18:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

The map looks great. I dont think that buying photoshop is really necessary, and the map will probably be up to standards for the wiki community too.--Merry Beth (talk) 19:46, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thank you, there has been some discussion over it on this page as well. I think its alright for now, but Sasata doesn't think it's FA worthy, so its going through a process on the bottom of this page. Oh, did you take the genetics test yet? Happy New Year! (Photoshop definately not a necesity).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, i noticed the message just now. Do you still need to know how to do the map with gimp? it has been some time since i did it, but i think i could tell you a way if still need it. just leave me a message, this time i'll look, promise :) cheers! --Sarefo (talk) 01:52, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, you said a lot of things I don't quite understand, but I can tell you that I created a somewhat poor image and left a request on the bottom of this page for it to be "spiced up." My deadline to get the bog turtle article to FA is 1-15-10, a tough order. But if you take a look at the image and can alter it to satisfy FAC, then PLEASE!!!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 18:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Wow! The new map looks amazing!--Merry Beth (talk) 02:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, those guys are really good.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 13:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Edit Summaries

Always providing an edit summary is considered a good practice because the summaries help us other editors determine whether it is worthwhile to check a change. Please complete the edit summary when making changes to the article or commenting on the talk page.--Yohmom (talk) 19:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I will provide information of my changes so that others can determine if it merits a check.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Bog turtle

I'll be happy to help you and your group get bog turtle ready for FAC. As I said on my talk page, it's a bit of a step up from GA, so everything's got to be pretty much spot on before you nominate it. What I suggest is that as well as copyediting I go through the article looking at it as an FAC reviewer would, so that come the day there should be no nasty surprises. I'll make some initial notes on the article's talk page, and we can take it from there.

PS. I laughed out loud when I read this: "During the courtship ritual, the male turtle gently bite and nudge the female turtle’s heads." How many heads does a female have? :lol: What it should say, of course is either "... the male turtle gently bites and nudges the female turtle's head", or "... the male turtles gently bite and nudge the female turtles' heads". I prefer the first version, but it needs to be fixed anyway. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

[Ummmm|[3]] Maybe this is their logic? --JimmyButler (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Ha, no that was a typo, thanks for catching it (P.S. How would a male turtle even...nevermind).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 20:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Bog turtle citations

I started a section for citation review in the Bog turtle article. Any discussions can be done there.

Bog turtle

I've removed and deleted the incorrectly nominated Featured article review for the turtle. FAR is for reviewing the status of current featured articles; featured article candidates is where new candidates are nominated. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:49, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

My mistake, I thoughr FA review is what an article went through to become FA. Thank you for correcting my error.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 02:54, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


I noticed on JimmyButler's talk page that you were looking for access to journal articles. Are there any you still need? Strombollii (talk) 00:53, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, thanks a lot though. It has all been worked out with User:Sasata.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:32, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, with the second PDF (Copeia 2009) the only thing I saw that we might could use would be a couple of sentences in the dicussion and habitat sections on page 4 and 5. If you feel like we need to, we could just add a sentence or two to what we already have.--Merry Beth (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and even so, a majority of the information is already in our article. Therefore, I can't really see anything in this PDF either. Despite this, I have e-mailed (wikimailed?) User:Donlammers over wikipedia and asked him how he would cite the PDF. There were several things in it that seemed interesting and that likely deserve a place in the article.
The main sentences being ones like:
  • "We found that turtles used soft, shallow mud habitat in the bog, but moved to a streambed when the bog became dry. While in the bog, turtles were often found within or
  • underneath woody debris."
  • "These piles apparently acted as low ground cover, offering increased protection from predators and/or heterogeneous habitat in which to thermoregulate."
  • "This listing [being federally endangered in southern states] means that Bog Turtle habitat in the southern U.S. is not federally protected. Therefore, although collection is illegal, Bog Turtle persistence in southern populations may hinge on effective management of small populations in fragmented landscapes."
  • "Turtles were not found deeper than 10 cm below the surface of the mud, although the depth of mud in the southern part of the bog often exceeded 50 cm before the bog began to dry."
--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Ok,the next two pdfs didn't seem all that helpful to me either. The first one was mind-blowing! The second one I liked a lot better, but I think we covered most of what it had to say besides some of the fossil information. We could add a fossil section if you think we should, but I don't know if it is necessary for FA. --Merry Beth (talk) 23:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm out of town at a conference right now, and if you emailed me, I think that is now in my personal email, which I am not watching right now. I'm watching this page (and of course my own) so you can post a request either place and I should catch it sooner. I need some more details on exactly what it is you are citing. From watching some of the posts, I gather it is an article for which you can only see the abstract and someone else has gotten you a PDF. If you can point me to the abstract, I can probably tell you how to cite it. Donlammers (talk) 04:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright, this URL takes you to the abstract: Would you recommend doing different citations for different page numbers, or, since we plan on using maybe four or five quotes, just one citation?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 19:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and we've done some further research, so this is another article we need to reference I could probably do it myself, but I would like a model of how to do it first (being that its an article that a lot of people will not be able to access).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, it's been a bit crazy at work, and I haven't even looked at Wikipedia for the last few days.

It would be ideal to cite page numbers if you have the PDF (though not strictly necessary). To do this, The first reference in the article should look something like <ref name=SmithP1>{{Harvnb|Smith|2006|p=1}}</ref>. Subsequent references to the same page should be something like <ref name=SmithP1/>. Then, in the References section you put an anchor like {{Anchor|CITEREFSmith2006}} (the anchor name is "CITEREF" followed by the name in the original reference and the year in the original reference), followed by the actual article citation (you can use the others as a template). I will try to take a closer look by some time tomorrow. Donlammers (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay man, the stuff you're talking about is way over my head. All I know is that whenever I try to change or fix something about a reference it comes up with the big, red, bold letters that say "error."--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I have added the two items you listed on your talk page as citations in the References section. Now we just need to add the inline citations. For the first item, where you first reference P1, include the following: <ref name="PittmanP1">{{Harvnb|Pittman|2009|p=1}}</ref> (for other pages, just change the page number). Anywhere else that you want to cite page 1, just include <ref name="PittmanP1"/></ref>. For the second item the initial reference is <ref name="RosenbaumP1">{{Harvnb|Rosenbaum|2007|p=1}}</ref> and subsequent references are <ref name="RosenbaumP1"/>. Note that by "first" here I mean the first place that you put a citation. Subsequent citations can be either before or after the "first" citation in the article. Donlammers (talk) 00:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
That's great, thanks a lot.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


I would like to see a picture of the plastron (ventral view). There are a few in the Flickr data base; perhaps someone would be willing to release the copyrights.--JimmyButler (talk) 18:55, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

There's one under the Description section, but I suppose one of a real turtle would be nice.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 12:49, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Also, reference 9 (Smith, Erika) looks like it has a good picture. It contains an image of a male and female bog in I believe a tonic state, displaying the plastron. This is the .gov PDF...does that mean we don't need to worry about copyright regulation?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Croatan High School

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Check this out

Maybe we can get this lucky on the Black mamba. Australian Green Tree Frog Reddevil1421 (talk) 01:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

A relatively short article.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 02:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
It's not really about getting lucky. The Australian Green Tree Frog article was promoted 5 years ago (2005), since then the criteria for featured articles has increased considerably. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 19:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Right, I was just telling my friend this. However, we were wondering why and FAR hasn't been done.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I asked a similar question recently and it seems there are not enough reviewers, or maybe you could say enough interest in FA reviewing. So old FA articles are not systematically reviewed over time. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 21:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree with your idea too.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 22:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken; all of the commentators have converted their extensive critiques to support. This is good, since all of them were very specific in their criticisms. Your willingness to address their list in an affirmative and positive manner should carry some weight in the FA process when compared to a one line "support" without an accompanying analysis. I'm optimistic - for now, address any concerns, but try to maintain some stability with minimal edits - then hope for the best.--JimmyButler (talk) 19:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Also - to date not a single oppose suggesting the article was relatively good from the beginning of Fa, at least not so bad that it was beyond repair. Very nice.--JimmyButler (talk) 19:12, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the supports seem to be rolling in. The only two that have left comments and have not switched to support are User:Mav and User:Visionholder. Their concerns have been addressed though. Thank you!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 22:48, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I think you've done really well with this, and kept your cool under pressure. which is just as important at FAC. Touch wood, I think you're about there now. It's a very impressive achievement anyway, pass or fail. Malleus Fatuorum 22:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, and btw, based on what I read on your talk page, I support your decision either way. Wikipedia can be intollerable at times (and I've only been here 7 months!)--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:06, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
  • I imagine that you're perhaps feeling a bit pissed with the whole FAC thing right now, but I still firmly believe that you're probably closer than you think. In a year or two you and your fellow students will look back at this article and think "Wow, did we really write that?" Courage, mon braves. Malleus Fatuorum 21:22, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
  • A little mad perhaps. Thanks for the sympathy (I'm really using this to motivate me to overcome the odds of me and my partner actually throwing this thing together).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 21:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

About the new list...

Do you think that the homing ability of the bog turtles is necessary info? Also, we already mentioned average clutch size in the article didn't we?--Merry Beth (talk) 21:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about the clutch size. :) --Merry Beth (talk) 21:36, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Homing, not really (see what he says when you say you don't think it's important, that's what I've been doing with the ones I didn't really see the need to add).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 21:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok, will do.--Merry Beth (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Turtles of the United States and Canada resource

Hey Dom, it's Tim. I saw that the book source you had also included the loggerhead so I decided to take it. I listed the pages that you can find info on the loggerhead for, but when you click on the link, it sends you to the bog turtle. Does this have anything to do with the ISBN number? Just wondering if you know any way I could find out how to change it so that it sent me to the right page. Thanks--TimHAllstr (talk) 21:58, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

No, I had trouble with this before. The link is to a specific page number so that it's easier to verify the source (I would check if the actual URL changes between page numbers).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 22:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. I was able to figure out how to change it.--TimHAllstr (talk) 23:02, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Sure thing (was it something more difficult than I made it out to be?).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey - I just read that someone saw a turtle next to cow poop. They suspect it was eating bugs that were visiting the dung. They also notice a turtle lying in a cow's footprint. Not sure what it all means - but thought you should know! The AP test is on Monday - so don't lose sleep stressing over piles of poop. Cheers! --JimmyButler (talk) 04:06, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, and I just saw a Banker Horse that was 21 hands! Maybe I should publish my findings in a journal and cite it on Wikipedia, since every known fact is dire!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 10:56, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


Bog turtle has just been promoted. Now how about collaborating on another animal? Ucucha 22:13, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I have given this some thought, I was thinking about another turtle (perhaps the spotted turtle, painted turtle, or the wood turtle). However, this will have to wait at least until the start of June (I have some exams and things coming up).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:14, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Congratulations! It's been a pleasure to watch the article grow and mature. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 23:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)