User talk:Ravenpuff/Archives/2020/March
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Prep 1
Hi, I like your edits, but this hook is now 215 characters long (I can't change it because it's my own):
- ... that Angelina Atyam was awarded the 1998 United Nations Prize in the Field of Human Rights for campaigning for the release of captive children, including her own daughter who had been kidnapped by Ugandan guerrillas?
- Yoninah (talk) 18:36, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
- I reverted to the original version. It's really not necessary to write full sentences in a hook. Yoninah (talk) 23:35, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: Noted, but I still think that we need some location context for this one. Would you object to re-including the word "Ugandan" before
guerrillas
in the hook? — RAVENPVFF · talk · 13:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)- As long as it's under the 200 char limit, it's fine by me. Maybe shorten "United Nations" to "UN" to make it fit. Yoninah (talk) 19:37, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: Noted, but I still think that we need some location context for this one. Would you object to re-including the word "Ugandan" before
Your move of List of Roman Catholic bishops of Hong Kong
With this page move, are you saying that "archbishops"
in List of Archbishops of Canterbury should also be lower case? —Bloom6132 (talk) 12:14, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Bloom6132: In general, yes. We have List of presidents of the United States, List of prime ministers of the United Kingdom and List of popes, to provide some examples of lists of high-profile offices in correct capitalisation. In any case, the Hong Kong list is slightly different in nuance than the Canterbury one – that "Archbishop of Canterbury" is the proper job title, but "Roman Catholic Bishop of Hong Kong" is not. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 13:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- But "Bishop of Hong Kong" is also a proper title. Just because there are multiple denominations having that same title doesn't make it any less of a "proper job title". —Bloom6132 (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Bloom6132: "Bishop of Hong Kong" is indeed proper (and is the actual title used), but it's qualified with "Roman Catholic" before it in this case. What I meant by "Roman Catholic Bishop of Hong Kong" not being a "proper title" was that it isn't the formal title of Hong Kong's Catholic bishops, in the same way that "Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury" is not used as a title by Justin Welby or "Former President of the United States" is not used by Barack Obama. Think of it this way: "Bishop Michael Yeung" is a correct form of address, but "Roman Catholic Bishop Michael Yeung" is not, except if "Bishop" were written in lowercase – here, "Roman Catholic" would instead be an adjective that modifies "bishop". — RAVENPVFF · talk · 14:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- So if I renamed the list to "List of Bishops of Hong Kong (Roman Catholic)", that would be in line with MOS:JOBTITLES? —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Bloom6132: Well, no, as "bishops" would still have to be in lowercase (see my first reply above). Moreover, this hypothetical title would still run afoul of WP:ATDAB, as parenthetical disambiguation should only be used if there are no other viable alternatives for the article title. I believe that the current one, "List of Roman Catholic bishops of Hong Kong", best conforms to our guidelines. To elucidate JOBTITLES further: we should only be capitalising job titles if they're denoting a title, but not if they're denoting an office. This is clearer if we're using a two-word example, like "prime minister" – we capitalise it in Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, as the article name is the pure, formal job title itself, but we don't capitalise it in List of prime ministers of the United Kingdom, as this one is no longer about the job title itself. I hope this clears things up. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 17:15, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you for clarifying things. So the article Archbishop of Canterbury would be the pure, formal job title; while the list List of Archbishops of Canterbury is about the office (not about the job title itself). Hence, "archbishops" in the latter should be in lower case – I'll proceed to move the title of the list if this is the case. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:25, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Bloom6132: Well, no, as "bishops" would still have to be in lowercase (see my first reply above). Moreover, this hypothetical title would still run afoul of WP:ATDAB, as parenthetical disambiguation should only be used if there are no other viable alternatives for the article title. I believe that the current one, "List of Roman Catholic bishops of Hong Kong", best conforms to our guidelines. To elucidate JOBTITLES further: we should only be capitalising job titles if they're denoting a title, but not if they're denoting an office. This is clearer if we're using a two-word example, like "prime minister" – we capitalise it in Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, as the article name is the pure, formal job title itself, but we don't capitalise it in List of prime ministers of the United Kingdom, as this one is no longer about the job title itself. I hope this clears things up. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 17:15, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
- So if I renamed the list to "List of Bishops of Hong Kong (Roman Catholic)", that would be in line with MOS:JOBTITLES? —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Bloom6132: "Bishop of Hong Kong" is indeed proper (and is the actual title used), but it's qualified with "Roman Catholic" before it in this case. What I meant by "Roman Catholic Bishop of Hong Kong" not being a "proper title" was that it isn't the formal title of Hong Kong's Catholic bishops, in the same way that "Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury" is not used as a title by Justin Welby or "Former President of the United States" is not used by Barack Obama. Think of it this way: "Bishop Michael Yeung" is a correct form of address, but "Roman Catholic Bishop Michael Yeung" is not, except if "Bishop" were written in lowercase – here, "Roman Catholic" would instead be an adjective that modifies "bishop". — RAVENPVFF · talk · 14:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- But "Bishop of Hong Kong" is also a proper title. Just because there are multiple denominations having that same title doesn't make it any less of a "proper job title". —Bloom6132 (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
DYK for Querida Amazonia
On 13 March 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Querida Amazonia, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Pope Francis's apostolic exhortation Querida Amazonia does not explicitly endorse married Catholic priests, despite being called for by the Amazon synod? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Querida Amazonia. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Querida Amazonia), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.