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The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was Denied.

tomerbot

[edit]

Operator: Tomer A.

Automatic or Manually Assisted: Automatic. Results are checked once the task is over

Programming language(s): Python

Function Overview:

  • Add interwiki - adds Hebrew interwiki to the equivalent category
  • Create Category - creates a new category
  • populate category - takes a list of articles and adds them into a category
  • copy category - takes a category in the Hebrew Wikipedia and a category from the english wikipedia and adds the english category to all articles which belongs to the hebrew category (this function to be used only in categories which are Israel related)

Edit period(s): Per request

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): In the hebrew wikipedia

Function Details:

Add interwiki:

  1. interwiki <- Hebrew category name
  2. add(intertwiki,English category)

populate category(list,category):

  1. for every item in the list
    1. add the category

copy category(hebrew category)

  1. english category <- interwiki(hebrew category)
  2. for every article in the hebrew category
    1. if article is not in english category
      1. add english category to the article
  3. do the same for all categories

Discussion

[edit]

This bot has already completed about 35 tasks in the Hebrew Wikipedia. it has about 3000 total edits Tomer A. 10:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How will the categories and lists of pages be determined? I.e., will it be by request of the relevant WikiProjects? Also, as a side note, may I suggest adding "uselang=en" to your links to your hewiki talk page. Or open your enwiki talk page up to comments; typing an LTR language in an RTL textbox can be confusing. Anomie⚔ 17:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure i understood the question here. this is how it works in the Hebrew Wikipedia: we have a special page where one posts a request to populate a category from a different language. We discuss the request and after we agree about the content and the scope the bot is sent to do its job.Added the PHP flag for English. i didn't know it exist. Tomer A. 00:31, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see. As far as I know, there isn't really any page like that here, so something similar would have to be created. We have Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals), but that really operates for proposals about the general running of the English Wikipedia. In case you're unaware, here we have a number of "WikiProjects", which are just a set of pages in the Project namespace where people interested in a particular topic discuss how to improve articles related to that topic. The best thing to do would probably be to contact some of the WikiProjects related to Hebrew topics (such as WikiProject Israel, WikiProject Judaism, WikiProject Jewish history, Jewish Encyclopedia topics, and/or WikiProject Jewish culture) to determine the best way to organize this. Anomie⚔ 01:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
hmm... i'm not sure this proposal suits well. have a look here for example. there is no reason on earth not to create a category for this just because we do not have the correct bureaucratic mechanism for this. Tomer A. 21:55, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There needs to be some way to determine whether there is consensus for a particular category to be bot-created. I don't particularly care what that way is. Anomie⚔ 00:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are many list in English Wikipedia, like the one above brought by Tomer, that needs to be converted into categories. TomerBot is doing it fast and efficient. It can convert lists into categories or take a category in any other Wiki and create the same one here. It is a great tool, and I see no reason not to implement it. Chagai (talk) 07:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The trouble is, some lists aren't suitable to be made into categories, and some lists may be controversial on the English Wikipedia in ways one might not at first suspect. List of converts to Judaism or List of designated terrorist organizations, for examples, might or might not be appropriate as a category, and should be discussed with people familiar with the potential controversies. If you're asking for permission to categorize a specific and limited group of lists, I could sign off on that. But if it's open ended, we'd need some way to ensure that there's consensus for the individual decisions. – Quadell (talk) 14:27, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
sorry, but i wasn't here for the last couple of days. i suggest opening a page called wikipedia:category bot where suggestions and requests for this bot activity will be placed. if no objections to be made for a week, we will run the bot. Tomer A. 17:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Instead, just run your test (below) so we can see if there are any glitches in the code. It's great that you're trying to find ways to ensure consensus, but please don't run your bot (for more than the test below) until it's been approved here. – Quadell (talk) 19:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Tomer A. 14:45, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Approved for trial (the "Gold Medal laureates" at Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society). Please provide a link to the relevant contributions and/or diffs when the trial is complete. and no other list at this time. – Quadell (talk) 14:27, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Trial complete. Tomer A. 14:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm not sure of the category name. "Winner" should not have been capitalized, and it's possible that a different name would have been better for the category: perhaps Category:Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society laureates? This is why it's so important to have a centralized discussion place for these categories, even for uncontroversial additions, especially since your experience with the English Wikipedia is limited. I appreciate the work you're doing, and I think this should be approved, but not until there's a way for you to gauge consensus before making changes to a large number of pages. – Quadell (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. i believe that Category:Recipients of the Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society should be the name. I also agree about the need for consensus (this is how things should be done). that is why i suggested creating a page called wikipedia:Category bot. Tomer A. 16:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone have any ideas on how this could best be set up? Help would be appreciated. It's certainly a useful bot. – Quadell (talk) 16:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Should not be used to put categories in articles on people (biographical articles), per WP:categorisation of people#General considerations, first bullet. You might be unaware, the actual REASON that guideline was ever started was bots populating/depopulating categories with bio articles.

Also, per our policies and guidelines at en-Wikipedia, you can't really add (for example) Category:Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society Winners or Category:Recipients of the Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society to Keith Edward Bullen (as the bot did), as long as this feat isn't mentioned in the text of the article on that person (the K E Bullen article is currently a stub not even mentioning the "Royal Astronomical Society" nor its medals, nor any recipient of such medal - that stub also looks very queer with currently more text in category names than actual body of the article). This bot is not suitable for English Wikipedia. I'm asking myself where the BAG members are? Aren't they supposed to do the checking against current state of the guidance on English Wikipedia?

Also I don't understand the rationale behind "...*only* in categories which are Israel related": either it works for all categories, either the bot shouldn't be used, and certainly any possible distinction in what kind of material the bot processes should not be made along the lines of a criterion based on cultural identity. As far as I remember there's a lot of sensitivity in that sense here on English Wikipedia, barring some Jewish and/or Israel-related lists and categories. --Francis Schonken (talk) 21:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As you may see in the request above the bot can take any list and convert it to any category. copying a category is a different issue. since the English Wikipedia is the largest wiki it is unlikely that it'll need to create a category from a different language. the only place where i can think of an advantage is in Israel related articles (If I were from France that comment would be correct for the FR wiki). i don't mind populating categories from different Wiki's as long as someone else verifies their content. as for your other comments, that is indeed for someone else to decide. Tomer A. 07:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Categories can not be populated with articles on people, per the current guidelines on en-Wikipedia. The operator of this bot tries to ignore that distinction. As far as I'm concerned this is a no-no for the bot. --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not try to ignore the policy, just leaving it to people who are more familiar with it than I am. Tomer A. 17:16, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I am, it means a no-no for the proposed bot. --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested further comment from editors at Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people. – Quadell (talk) 13:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And for the trial run, I just came across Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Award recipients ("In general (...), recipients of an award should be grouped in a list rather than a category."), seems like a no-no from that angle too. Or is the bot making the distinctions described in that guideline? --Francis Schonken (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Denied. Sorry. – Quadell (talk) 12:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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