Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Arthur O. Austin/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by David Fuchs via FACBot (talk) 12 July 2024 [1].

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Arthur O. Austin

Nominator(s): RoySmith (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Have you ever listened to a radio broadcast or admired the pretty blinking lights on a radio transmitter tower? Have you ever wondered how aircraft survive being hit by lightning? Has it ever struck you as odd that every electrical appliance you buy has a label warning you about the dangers of electrocution if you get it wet, but the high-tension lines that bring power to your house do just fine outside in the rain and snow? If so, you'll want to read this article to find out how some guy you've probably never heard of was a big part of making all that work. RoySmith (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Image review by Generalissima

• All images have good alt-text.
• File:Arthur O. Austin 1933.jpg has been found to be in the public domain. Good to go.
• File:Residence of O. C. Barber, Anna Dean Farm (12840459315).jpg, no known copyright restrictions according to the Miami University Libraries.
• File:Arthur O. Austin 1905.jpg, public domain
• File:US Patent 1968868 (A. O. Austin, Radiotower).pdf Public domain due to being a government document.
• File:Austin Ring WMCA WNYC cropped and annotated.jpg Published under CC B.Y. 2.0, and modified by RoySmith, good to go!
• File:Ohio Insulator Company high voltage lab.jpg Public domain.
• All images are appropriately positioned and relevant to the text. I think we're good to go here; Support on image review. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 17:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

  @Generalissima I recently found File:Ohio Brass factory staff, Barberton, Ohio.pdf. It doesn't explicitly identify the person front-center as Austin, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that's him. Any thoughts on adding this to the article with a "believed to be" caption? RoySmith (talk) 21:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  Hmm, I feel "believed to be" implies that another source described it as that. I'd just label it as the Ohio Brass Company staff, and viewers would just sorta presume Austin is in there. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:09, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, thanks for the input. I'll keep looking and keep this one in reserve for now. I'm starting to gather notes for Ohio Brass Company and this will make a lot more sense there. RoySmith (talk) 01:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Support from Draken Bowser

An interesting account of Austin's various exploits. I'm left wondering about two things:

• Did he have any friends or close associates, at college or later in life?

• What, if any, was his impact on local society through politics, association membership and/or patronage?
  • I haven't seen anything that talks about those things.

And two pointers on the "Personal life"-section:

• "The couple were in an accident in 1919" -- what kind of accident?
  • I've filled in some details. It turns out, it was kind of gruesome. I've left the gory stuff out; people can read the source if they want. RoySmith (talk) 15:57, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
    • That's quite enough, no more details needed! /DB

• "By the 1920s, Austin was a wealthy man." -- since this is the first mention of wealth in the body it should be briefly stated how he acquired his fortune.
  • The source doesn't go into details. It does say "He apparently hit it off well with management, and this, coupled with his particular expertise in insulator design, provided him free rein for innovating and developing products for Ohio Brass." from which one can infer he was well paid by Ohio Brass, but I think putting a statement like that in the article would be kind of WP:OR-ish. However, it's good that you mentioned this because it made me see a typo, which I've fixed (1920s -> 1930s). RoySmith (talk) 15:57, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 15:07, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Do we need to specify "US patents"? He has a lot of Canadian duplicates, but I don't know how these things are usually counted/represented. Draken Bowser (talk) 17:21, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Good question. What I've done so far is to use "U.S. Patent" when I'm referring to a specific patent by number and just plain "patent" for more generic mentions. I think that makes sense, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise or to consider any specific suggestions. RoySmith (talk) 21:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I have anything to add, and the article has seen additional polish over the last couple of days. Nice work! Draken Bowser (talk) 15:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Just a comment: I suggest shuffling the lede a bit to put what he's most known for closer to the start, in the second sentence, say (or maybe even flipping the two paragraphs). Would help to clarify who he is more than all the names of his non-notable companies. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 00:47, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Good suggestion. Done. RoySmith (talk) 01:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• "He is most known". Not 'best known'?

  Fixed

• "He had 225 patents". 'He registered 225 patents'?

  Fixed

• "Personal life" sits very oddly at the start of the article.

  I'm not sure I understand the objection; are you saying that this section is poorly titled or that it should be moved to another place in the article?

That it would be better after "Career".

It seemed to make sense to keep "Career" and "High-voltage laboratories" together, so I moved it after both.

Hmmm, I'm having second thoughts about this. The personal life section introduced his estate and described the various outbuildings that ended up being used as labs, as well as the ornate architecture of the mansion. These aspects all feature in the description of the labs and it doesn't flow quite as well in the inverse order. Would you be opposed to my moving the sections back to their original order?

Er, like, "after "Career" " wasn't picked at random. But the gripping hand is it's your article, put it where you think it works best.

• "seeking post-secondary engineering degrees." What is post-secondary?

  Linked

• "RF leakage"; "radiated RF energy". What is RF?

  Clarified and linked

• "5,000 Watt transmission tower". I realise that a watt is named after James Watt, but - like an ampere or a newton - it is usually written with a lower-case initial letter.

  I was taught in school that you capitalize units which are named after a person, which is supported by the NIST style guide. On the other hand, Watt, Joule, and Newton (unit) all use lower case. On the third hand, MOS:UNITNAMES says, Except as listed in the § Specific units table below, unit symbols are uncapi­tal­ized unless they are derived from a proper name, in which case the first letter ... is capitalized.

On the fourth hand that only applies to symbols, which is emphasised in the original. Lose the upper case. You know you want to.

On the gripping hand, I read somewhere not to argue with your reviewer too much...

... or you get fed greeps. Sound advice.

• "Austin is best known for inventing the Austin Ring Transformer!. Why the upper-case R and T?

  Because brain? Fixed. BTW, if memory serves, I first got onto this when I stumbled onto Austin transformer and got hooked on the story.

It's odd what can serve to hook us into rewriting an article, although I can see how it could work with this.

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

No, there isn't. A splendid article. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

HF

I will try to review this over the coming week. Hog Farm _Talk 17:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to wait to start my review until after the source review issues have been resolved. Hog Farm _Talk 00:04, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• "After graduating from college in 1903, Austin worked for General Electric in Schenectady, New York." - I think this needs rephrased, since later in the article it notes that sources differ as to if he graduated in 1903 or 1901
  • I finally nailed this down by finding a copy of the (1903) commencement brochure, so went with that.
• "In 1906, he moved to Lima, New York, to work for the Lima Insulator Company. The company's factory was destroyed by fire in 1908, after which Austin moved to Ohio to work for Akron Hi-Potential Porcelain Company, which had started operations on November 1, 1906.[3]" - there's evidently some reference placement issues here. The source following this only supported the date that the Akron Hi-Potential Porcelain Company opened.
  • Fixed.
• "which had started operations on November 1, 1906." - why is this tidbit relevant to an article about Austin?
  • Deleted.
• "which in turn was purchased by Hubbell in 1978" - I don't think this is relevant to an article on Austin; the purchase occurred 14 years after his death
  • Several of the references are on the Hubbell web site, and I make reference to the 4th lab being "Hubbell's Frank B. Black Research Center, named in honor of Ohio Brass's founder". Unless I tell the reader that Hubbell bought Ohio Brass, that won't make any sense.
• "The 1971 Austin Insulator product catalog listed 21 standard types with power ratings from 0.7 to 7.0 kVA weighing 70–340 pounds (32–154 kg), with the larger units only available on special order. Prices ranged from $300 (equivalent to $2,300 in 2023) to $800 (equivalent to $6,000 in 2023) quoted in USD, FOB Toronto" - what makes this due detail, especially if we can only cite this to a catalog? If this were a modern business this would be a definite WP:NOTPRICE violation.
  • I felt there was some value in explaining to the reader that these weren't just some cheap widgets you can buy for $0.39. But I don't feel strongly about that, so I've dropped the pricing info.
• "He was a Republican, a mason and a member of the Order of the Eastern Star, " - isn't Mason usually capitalized when referring to members of the Freemasons?
  • Fixed.
• If Austin was involved with only the first two high-voltage labs, then I have my doubts that the latter two labs are relevant enough to an article on Austin that they need a full two paragraphs of content
  • I've deleted some of the detail and combined these two paragraphs into one.
• "In 1933, Austin started the A. O. Austin Insulator Company. After Austin's death in 1964, the company passed through a number of ownership changes, being at various times part of Decca Navigator Company (a division of Decca Records) and Litton Marine." - this is partially a reference placement issue - most of the content is in reference #2, not #21, but I'm not seeing where the reference to Litton Marine is found in either of the citations provided in that paragraph
  • Fixed.

That's the first pass through the article from me; I'm concerned that the article is containing information that isn't directly connected with Austin. Hog Farm _Talk 19:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I fixed a couple of these; the last few will take me a bit longer. I'll ping you when I've got those done. RoySmith (talk) 21:14, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

OK @Hog Farm I believe I'd addressed all of your points. RoySmith (talk) 23:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm still not sold on the Engineering and Technology History Wiki being a high-quality reliable source. Per their information page, All the registered users of the ETHW can collaborate on any encyclopedic article. and Anyone can register on the ETHW creating a account using the account creation form. Yes, there is some sort of vetting (I see that the account approval process involves uploading a CV), but I don't see how this source can make it to the greater high-quality RS sourcing standard. Hog Farm _Talk 18:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

You're talking about https://ethw.org/Ohio_Brass_High_Voltage_Laboratories, right? This was originally published in IEEE's Today's Engineer (later incorporated into IEEE-USA InSight) which I think should be considered reliable. The initial part of the InSight article is at https://insight.ieeeusa.org/articles/from-matches-to-lightning-the-ohio-brass-high-voltage-laboratories/, but that's not the entire article, so I cited the copy on ETHW. Note that the version on the IEEE web site refers you to ETHW, which I would treat as just the content deliverer and IEEE InSight as the original publisher. Does that help? If not, let me know and I'll keep digging to see if I can find a better source. RoySmith (talk) 19:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Hog Farm I've cogitated on this a bit and come to the conclusion that the statements sourced to ETHW aren't really critical, so I deleted them. Hopefully at some point I'll find a better source and can add them back, but at least for now, ETHW is gone. RoySmith (talk) 20:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

PS, ChatGPT was able to supply me with some wonderful verbiage about the early history of these labs, if you're into that sort of thing. RoySmith (talk) 20:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

BTW, see Engineering and Technology History Wiki RoySmith (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm ready to support. Hog Farm _Talk 13:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Source review by Z1720

• What makes "Engineering and Technology History Wiki" a high-quality source?
  • Per https://ethw.org/ETHW:About, I would consider this similar to an internal publication of a professional society. One of the articles (Ohio Brass High Voltage Laboratories) is a reprint from the IEEE's Today's Engineer.
• What makes "Decca Navigator News" a high-quality source?
  • Removed
• What makes "Past Pursuits" a high-quality source? This seems to be a publication of a library system.
  • I'm working on this one. I've contacted the author to see if they can provide a bibliography of the sources they used.
    • Well, they sent me exactly what I needed, so I've replaced all of the citations to this source with those to the underlying newspaper articles.
• What makes "IEEE-USA Insights" a high-quality source? This seems to be a careers/labour collective and lobbying organisation.
  • The IEEE is the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, a major professional society. I would certainly not call them a "careers/labour collective and lobbying organisation."
• What makes "Mehla, Ishwar Singh" a high-quality source? Notion Press seems to be a self-published source.
  • I didn't notice that about the publisher. I'll look for a better source for this statement.
    • Replaced with another source
• What makes the "Obituary for Martha (Austin) Gormley" a high-quality source, considering that it is unknown who wrote it and it is published on a funeral home website? Since it is the second supporting source for a sentence, can it be removed?
  • The only thing that source is used for is the year of her death. I think the funeral home which conducted her funeral can be considered authoritative for that.
  • I could replace that with her death notice in the Akron Beacon Journal, but it's really just the same thing from the same funeral home.
    • Removed that entire section.

Those are my initial thoughts. Looking foward to your responses. Z1720 (talk) 00:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I've responded to some of these in-line above. I'll get to the others as I'm able. RoySmith (talk) 01:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

This is going to take a bit of time for me to work through this. I will confess to a certain amount of frustration that I brought this to peer review explicitly to get input on the quality of the sources but didn't get any response. So here we are going over the same question at FAC. I'm not saying it's your fault (or that you should't raise these objections), just venting a bit at the process. RoySmith (talk) 15:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: PR has a lack of reviewers, especially for potential FACs. The only way to fix it is for editors to take time out of their own projects to review articles nominated there. Z1720 (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. OK, now that I've indulged my inner grumpy cat, can you clarify the issue with the two sources on ETHW? Are you OK with Ohio Brass High Voltage Laboratories, as a reprint from Today's Engineer? RoySmith (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Z1720 OK, I've eliminated all the the questionable sources. I believe that article reprinted from the IEEE Today's Engineer and the IEEE USA Insights article are WP:RS, so left those in place. RoySmith (talk) 21:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Some more notes on IEEE Insight... Per their editoral guidelines, "Submissions are published at INSIGHT's discretion. Editors will review each contribution and accept, return to the author for revision, or reject the article". The editorial staff is listed here. I believe this meets the requirement of WP:REPUTABLE for sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy RoySmith (talk) 02:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: Took another look, and have no concerns with quality of sources. One formatting concern: Refs 1 and 27 missing the name of the newspaper (I assume they are both "The Akron Beacon Journal"?) Let me know when this is resolved. Z1720 (talk) 18:53, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@Z1720 Done. Thanks for the review. Some of those sources were a bit dubious; prodding me to find better ones was a good thing. RoySmith (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Pass source review. No spot checks were conducted. I'm glad better sources were found: great work. Z1720 (talk) 21:49, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments from Joeyquism

Committing to a review because you've been so kind to provide peer reviews for both Album covers of Blue Note Records and Sergio Brown. Should get to this soon; feel free to comment on my talk page if I haven't provided anything in a timely manner. joeyquism (talk page) 07:17, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

A very engaging read about a very interesting person! I'm not too big a fan of the electrical engineering subject myself (I actually changed majors from EE to computer science after massively failing my breadboard classes), but to me this guy seems like fun. Some things that I've noted are listed below; feel free to refuse suggestions with justification:

• A native of California, Austin graduated from Leland Stanford University with a degree in electrical engineering. - MOS:OL on California? Notably, Ohio is not wikilinked in the career section; I would think those unfamiliar with California would also likely be unfamiliar with Ohio.
• He bought a large estate in Barberton, Ohio, lived in the mansion, and built an extensive outdoor electrical laboratory on the grounds. - "Estate" generally means "an extensive area of land in the country, usually with a large house"; while the common definition per whatever dictionary Google gets its information from does indicate that estates "usually" contain large houses/mansions, it does not imply that an estate is always defined by the existence of a large house/mansion. Perhaps "the mansion" should be "a mansion"?
  • Sources pretty much universally refer to it as an estate, and the house as "the mansion".
• ... and orientated so rain water can drip off the secondary without hitting the primary ring. - "Orientated" should be "oriented"; I think the former is British English.
• Patrick Warr of Austin Insulators ... - Remove the space before the ref template
• He graduated from Stockton high school[1] then went to Leland Stanford University ... - Wikilink Leland Stanford University. Should it be "high school" or "High School"? If it is indeed a nondescript high school in Stockton, it should likely be just "high school in Stockton".
• ... and hundreds of thousands of amps. - Wikilink "amps". I think the only other mention of something related to amperage is volt-ampere.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything glaring that needs to be fixed; of course, let me know if I'm being a pedant above. Well done! Feel free to follow up with comments of your own. joeyquism (talk page) 15:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

• Thank you for the review. Except as noted above, I've addressed all of these issues. And, yeah, what a cool job getting to blow shit up with lightning bolts and be paid for it. RoySmith (talk) 18:42, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  Support - Looking much better. I'd also love to blow shit up as a career, but I guess that's already a part of working in a technical field, no? A most excellent article; great work! joeyquism (talk page) 19:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.